Social drinking?

[shag]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

why are you quoting all these versions, I thought you were KJV Only?
or perhaps you are KJV Only, Only when it is convenient?

I think u have confused me w some other...unless u could expound I'm not sure where u got that.
I like the amplified, ESV, the nkjv, and then also the KJV, (which I do sometimes quote from but usually nkjv I think).

[Sean]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

If your idea was correct then Paul would have simply said
And be not drunk with wine, but be filled with the Spirit;
instead of
And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

a better way would have been for him to say
And drink no wine, but be filled with the Spirit;
instead of
And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

The wording of Paul does not support your view at all.

Paul is basically saying drinking wine itself is excessive..."Ephesians 5:18



And be not drunk with wine, wherein("in which", wine the subject) is excess(or wine itself is excessive or overindulging); but be filled with the Spirit;



Paul is giving us the ALTERNATIVE to wine here,,,BUT(or rather), to be FILLED with the Spirit...Otherwise known as "THE NEW WINE"


When we get the New wine, we dont need to drink the old wine anymore...

[allstate1]

Originally Posted by Sean

Paul is basically saying drinking wine itself is excessive..."Ephesians 5:18



And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess(or wine itself is excessive or overindulging); but be filled with the Spirit;



Paul is giving us the ALTERNATIVE to wine here,,,BUT(or rather), to be FILLED with the Spirit...Otherwise known as "THE NEW WINE"


When we get the New wine, we dont need to drink the old wine anymore...

Wow. You are trying your best to make it say what you want it to!

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Sean

Bro. a spade is a BUZZ from alcohol, it just takes one or two glasses for a light drinker to get "tipsy". You guys are insisting on our savior being "tipsy" from time to time. If drunkenness is a sin, the drinks leading up to it are "creating" the sin. So you guys are saying in essence, Jesus was a sinner...

You are adding to the word of God. Drinks don't lead to drunkeness, drinking TOO Much does

You probably don't believe in slits at the bottom of a skirt, not even an inch.

BTW let me call your spade again. You are lying. Nobody said Jesus became tipsy

As I said before several times, people back then diluted their wine with water. What do you suppose they drank otherwise? Pepsi?

So let me ask you, please prove that the word "wine" can and does refer to non-fermented drinks.

And please no more lies about what I or anyone else has said.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

You are adding to the word of God. Drinks don't lead to drunkeness, drinking TOO Much does

You probably don't believe in slits at the bottom of a skirt, not even an inch.

BTW let me call your spade again. You are lying. Nobody said Jesus became tipsy

As I said before several times, people back then diluted their wine with water. What do you suppose they drank otherwise? Pepsi?

So let me ask you, please prove that the word "wine" can and does refer to non-fermented drinks.

And please no more lies about what I or anyone else has said.

Prax really...Drinks dont lead to drunkenness?...cmon bro...ya hurt me in a bad kinda way...LOL

[Sean]

Originally Posted by allstate1

Wow. You are trying your best to make it say what you want it to!

Exactly right, so are you my friend...

[Sean]

There is a big difference between adding to the Word and defining the sin it is suggesting. I am just trying to help my wonderful brethren here not get caught with a buzz when the Lord comes.....Matt 24:48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

[Praxeas]

If Wine is evil and a sin, why would Jesus use it as a teaching method?
Mat 9:17 And no one pours new wine into old wineskins; otherwise the skins burst and the wine is spilled out and the skins are destroyed. Instead they put new wine into new wineskins and both are preserved.

Why would Jesus turn water into Wine?
Joh 2:3 When the wine ran out, Jesus' mother said to him, "They have no wine left."
Joh 2:4 Jesus replied, "Woman, why are you saying this to me? My time has not yet come."
Joh 2:5 His mother told the servants, "Whatever he tells you, do it."
Joh 2:6 Now there were six stone water jars there for Jewish ceremonial washing, each holding twenty or thirty gallons.
Joh 2:7 Jesus told the servants, "Fill the water jars with water." So they filled them up to the very top.
Joh 2:8 Then he told them, "Now draw some out and take it to the head steward," and they did.
Joh 2:9 When the head steward tasted the water that had been turned to wine, not knowing where it came from (though the servants who had drawn the water knew), he called the bridegroom
Joh 2:10 and said to him, "Everyone serves the good wine first, and then the cheaper wine when the guests are drunk. You have kept the good wine until now

Did Jesus receive the wine?
Joh 19:29 A jar full of sour wine was there, so they put a sponge soaked in sour wine on a branch of hyssop and lifted it to his mouth.
Joh 19:30 When he had received the sour wine, Jesus said, "It is completed!" Then he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

Why would Paul tell believers it's good not to each flesh or drink wine IF it causes a brother to stumble if it's a sin to just drink it? Why not just say "It's a sin to even think about it"?
Rom 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor anything by which your brother stumbles, or is offended, or is made weak.

Why would Paul say "Don't be drunk with wine", if even drinking it is a sin?
Eph 5:18 And do not be drunk with wine, in which is excess, but be filled with the Spirit,

If it's a sin to even drink a little bit, why would Paul say to find a man not given to MUCH wine?
1Ti 3:8 Likewise the deacons are to be reverent, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of ill gain,

Why would Paul say to drink wine to Timothy?
1Ti 5:23 Drink water no longer, but use a little wine for your stomach's sake, and for your frequent infirmities.

Women?
Tit 2:3 Let the aged women likewise be in reverent behavior, not slanderers, not enslaved by much wine, teachers of good;

Why would Peter say "excess of wine" and not say "any amount of wine"?
1Pe 4:3 For the time of life which is past is enough for us to have worked out the will of the nations, having gone on in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, parties, carousings, and abominable idolatries.

Why would God prescribe a drink offering of wine?
Exo 29:40 And with the one lamb a tenth part of flour mixed with the fourth part of a hin of beaten oil, and the fourth part of a hin of wine, a drink offering.

Why would God tell the priests not to drink wine only when they are about to go into the temple? Why not totally forbid it?
Lev 10:9 Do not drink wine nor strong drink, neither you nor your sons with you, when you go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest you die, a statute forever throughout your generations.

BTW a Nazarite could not each grapes
Num 6:3 he shall separate himself from wine and strong drink. He shall drink no vinegar made from wine or strong drink and shall not drink any juice of grapes or eat grapes, fresh or dried.
Num 6:4 All the days of his separation he shall eat nothing that is produced by the grapevine, not even the seeds or the skins.

Why did God bless them with Wine?
Deu 11:14 I will give the rain of your land in its due season, the first rain and the latter rain, that you may gather in your grain and your wine and your oil

They were even to tithe on the wine
Deu 12:17 You may not eat inside your gates the tithe of your grain or of your wine or of your oil, or the first-born of your herds or of your flock, or any of your vows which you vow, or your free-will offerings or the heave offering of your hand.

I can go on, but I predict someone will change the topic to getting drunk and claim I said Jesus got drunk

[Sean]

As long as I dont drink, I dont have to worry about fitting what the Lord's standards are concerning being drunk. It could be a level of,.001, and thats drunk to Him. But like I said...I have nothing to worry about here brethren! I hope you feel the same also.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

If Wine is evil and a sin, why would Jesus use it as a teaching method?
Mat 9:17 And no one pours new wine into old wineskins; otherwise the skins burst and the wine is spilled out and the skins are destroyed. Instead they put new wine into new wineskins and both are preserved.

Why would Jesus turn water into Wine?
Joh 2:3 When the wine ran out, Jesus' mother said to him, "They have no wine left."
Joh 2:4 Jesus replied, "Woman, why are you saying this to me? My time has not yet come."
Joh 2:5 His mother told the servants, "Whatever he tells you, do it."
Joh 2:6 Now there were six stone water jars there for Jewish ceremonial washing, each holding twenty or thirty gallons.
Joh 2:7 Jesus told the servants, "Fill the water jars with water." So they filled them up to the very top.
Joh 2:8 Then he told them, "Now draw some out and take it to the head steward," and they did.
Joh 2:9 When the head steward tasted the water that had been turned to wine, not knowing where it came from (though the servants who had drawn the water knew), he called the bridegroom
Joh 2:10 and said to him, "Everyone serves the good wine first, and then the cheaper wine when the guests are drunk. You have kept the good wine until now

Did Jesus receive the wine?
Joh 19:29 A jar full of sour wine was there, so they put a sponge soaked in sour wine on a branch of hyssop and lifted it to his mouth.
Joh 19:30 When he had received the sour wine, Jesus said, "It is completed!" Then he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

Why would Paul tell believers it's good not to each flesh or drink wine IF it causes a brother to stumble if it's a sin to just drink it? Why not just say "It's a sin to even think about it"?
Rom 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor anything by which your brother stumbles, or is offended, or is made weak.

Why would Paul say "Don't be drunk with wine", if even drinking it is a sin?
Eph 5:18 And do not be drunk with wine, in which is excess, but be filled with the Spirit,

If it's a sin to even drink a little bit, why would Paul say to find a man not given to MUCH wine?
1Ti 3:8 Likewise the deacons are to be reverent, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of ill gain,

Why would Paul say to drink wine to Timothy?
1Ti 5:23 Drink water no longer, but use a little wine for your stomach's sake, and for your frequent infirmities.

Women?
Tit 2:3 Let the aged women likewise be in reverent behavior, not slanderers, not enslaved by much wine, teachers of good;

Why would Peter say "excess of wine" and not say "any amount of wine"?
1Pe 4:3 For the time of life which is past is enough for us to have worked out the will of the nations, having gone on in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, parties, carousings, and abominable idolatries.

Why would God prescribe a drink offering of wine?
Exo 29:40 And with the one lamb a tenth part of flour mixed with the fourth part of a hin of beaten oil, and the fourth part of a hin of wine, a drink offering.

Why would God tell the priests not to drink wine only when they are about to go into the temple? Why not totally forbid it?
Lev 10:9 Do not drink wine nor strong drink, neither you nor your sons with you, when you go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest you die, a statute forever throughout your generations.

BTW a Nazarite could not each grapes
Num 6:3 he shall separate himself from wine and strong drink. He shall drink no vinegar made from wine or strong drink and shall not drink any juice of grapes or eat grapes, fresh or dried.
Num 6:4 All the days of his separation he shall eat nothing that is produced by the grapevine, not even the seeds or the skins.

Why did God bless them with Wine?
Deu 11:14 I will give the rain of your land in its due season, the first rain and the latter rain, that you may gather in your grain and your wine and your oil

They were even to tithe on the wine
Deu 12:17 You may not eat inside your gates the tithe of your grain or of your wine or of your oil, or the first-born of your herds or of your flock, or any of your vows which you vow, or your free-will offerings or the heave offering of your hand.

I can go on, but I predict someone will change the topic to getting drunk and claim I said Jesus got drunk

Prax, the burden of proof is on YOU to prove the wine you are referring to is fermented. I clearly see the common drink of Jesus and the believers of the N.T. as drinking unfermented grape juice, just like believers drink it today....It was healthy then and it is healthy now