Book of Enoch, 1 Peter, 2nd Peter, Jude parallels

[Evang.Benincasa]

Esaias should write a book.

I wish he would write a book.

He could send it to me when he is finished writing a book.

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Esaias should write a book.

I wish he would write a book.

He could send it to me when he is finished writing a book.

Yep. Samesies

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by jediwill83

Yep. Samesies

The brilliant minds and teachings and wit we have been blessed with on this forum.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Just a note to say I have considered Esaias' viewpoint on this, and am not convinced, but have not totally scrapped it either. I still find it hard to think Jesus and the apostles wrote of things that were blatantly wrong in order to use sinners' own ammo against them.

Exactly!

Like when people say, "I have to get drunk in order to save the drunkard". LOL!

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I understand those references. But when I read Jude, he sandwiches the reference to the angels losing their first estate between the doubtgers in the Exodus who did not believe they could enter Canaan and the people of Sodom and Gommorha who were judged due to sin, as though all the accounts ere factual. He said that the fall of these angels was judgment just as with the Exodus doubters and Sodom and Gommorha. And he makes no distinction between those stories.

Jude 1:5-7.. I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. ..(6).. And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. ..(7).. Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Amen!

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by mfblume

...I still find it hard to think Jesus and the apostles wrote of things that were blatantly wrong in order to use sinners' own ammo against them.

II Peter 1:16-21
16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

"to some men the hardest part about the Bible, is because it's so simple" -Author Unknown

Matthew 11:25
At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Exactly!

Like when people say, "I have to get drunk in order to save the drunkard". LOL!

Not at all equivalent.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

II Peter 1:16-21
16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

"to some men the hardest part about the Bible, is because it's so simple" -Author Unknown

Matthew 11:25
At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

Which holy men of God spake in old times about Michael and the devil arguing about Moses' body? Or about angels falling from heaven in an ancient rebellion against God?

And, who is being quoted here:

Acts 17:28 KJV
For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

...and what is being referred to in that quotation, what is it's original context? And more importantly, have you ever asked yourself these questions?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Not at all equivalent.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Plato wrote in the Republic: “But such as are true racers, arriving at the end, both receive the prices and are crowned.” The Roman Hellenized Apostle, used this teaching in 1 Corinthians 9:24. Plato wrote in Phaedo, “to be carnally-minded was death.” Paul uses the phrase in Romans 8:6. Plato wrote in Phaedo, “I am very far from admitting that he who contemplates existences through the medium of thought, sees them only through a glass, darkly, any more than he would see them in their working effects.” Paul uses this in his teaching to the Corinthian church found in 1 Corinthians 13:12. Epimenides wrote "They fashioned a tomb for you, holy and high one, Cretans, always liars, evil beasts, idle bellies. But you are not dead: you live and abide forever, For in you we live and move and have our being." Paul uses part of this text in a letter to Titus, Titus 1:12. Paul quotes the latter part of Epimenides' poem to the Areopagus in Athens.

The hardest part about the Bible, is because it's so simple. Simple to those who were the original audience of the Apostles. Simple because they knew all the traditions, mythologies, Judean, and Roman. Who could separate what these early Christians were trying to imply when they were quoting Greek Pagan stoics, and Israelite myths. Jesus straightened out all the false traditions which were taught by Sadducees, Pharisees, and Diaspora Judeans. Paul straightened out Roman Greeks, Judeans, and Talmudic Rabbinicals of their traditions. The Apostle Paul used the words of Pagans to teach Biblical truths. That's a fact. Peter uses the Greek word Τάρταρος in 2 Peter 2:4. In the Old Testament prophets used imagery of those around them. God is invisible, He has no shape or form. Yet, the Prophet Isaiah uses the image of Bal riding on a cloud wreaking vengeance on Egypt Isaiah 19:1. This was to show that GOD was the only god that He was the true weather god. He was the ONLY lighting bolt thrower. The only one who can and will bring judgement. In 2 Peter 2:4, Zeus was the god who threw the titans into Τάρταρος to be held in chains. Do you think that the ancient Hellenized Judeans understood those words from the Apostle Peter, that GOD was actually Zeus/Jupiter of the Roman Greeks? Or did they realize that what Peter was doing, was actually saying that God of the Hebrews was the ONLY GOD who was able to trap and punish those who came against Him?
Biblical imagery is all throughout the Bible, yet the people who penned down the Bible weren't into images of their deity. Yet, their God is described by using the pagan images? They were not saying that is what He looked like, but to say that what their carved blocks of stone were supposed to do, that God who is invisible is the ONLY ONE who can do all these things. Yet, man gave His attributes of supreme power to mythical beings. That's what it meant, by saying God is God of Gods. All wisdom is God's all power is God's.