Adultery vs Fornication

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by peter83

go to the 19:00 (i am listening right now)

I do not have 37 minutes to invest in watching this. What is the sum of his argument.

[peter83]

Originally Posted by Originalist

I do not have 37 minutes to invest in watching this. What is the sum of his argument.

i told you just go to the 19:00 minute and listen...

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by peter83

i told you just go to the 19:00 minute and listen...

Again, he promotes the same myth you do that fornication only happens outside of marriage. "Porneia" can be used for ANY unlawful sexual act, including adultery. And in Matthew 19:9, it is indeed speaking of adultery as the context is a lawful reason to put away one's WIFE. But will you see it? NO !! Will the nutcase on the video see it? NO !!

To answer him further, yes a married man can commit fornication. If he commits adultery, he is indulging in a type of unlawful sex (porneia-fornication). It is so simple. That preacher is slamming others while he is the one that should not be in the pulpit.

[peter83]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Again, he promotes the same myth you do that fornication only happens outside of marriage. "Porneia" can be used for ANY unlawful sexual act, including adultery. And in Matthew 19:9, it is indeed speaking of adultery as the context is a lawful reason to put away one's WIFE. But will you see it? NO !! Will the nutcase on the video see it? NO !!

To answer him further, yes a married man can commit fornication. If he commits adultery, he is indulging in a type of unlawful sex (porneia-fornication). It is so simple. That preacher is slamming others while he is the one that should not be in the pulpit.

ΗE is just one of us (ChristiANS) Nothing new.
(do you remember even the dictionary in English i quote you? Were 4-5 dictionaries..the very firsts i found in front of me....)

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by peter83

ΗE is just one of us (ChristiANS) Nothing new.
(do you remember even the dictionary in English i quote you? Were 4-5 dictionaries..the very firsts i found in front of me....)

All acts of adultery are acts of fornication, but not all acts of fornication are adultery. This is the legal definition of "porneia", any unlawful sex.

[peter83]

Originally Posted by Originalist

All acts of adultery are acts of fornication, but not all acts of fornication are adultery. This is the legal definition of "porneia", any unlawful sex.

facts:the only reason to put away a woman is fornication. otherwise everyone who puts away causing her to commit adultery, he who marries her that was put away also commits adultery and if the man who left her marries an other commits adultry. the woman that departs her self and re-marry comits adultery.
Now with those facts ,if we have a little fear of God (and some love) we are to see what really fornication means (we like it or no).
dictionaries make a diference and Scriptures too make a diference (can you ignore that?) 1) many times adultry is used in the same verse as diferent act of fornication and 2) never fornication were used to describe anything enter a married couple, any sin during marriage is considered as adultry while 3) every sexual sin out of marriage is considered as fornication.

If your consiense is ok with thisthen go for it!

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by peter83

facts:the only reason to put away a woman is fornication. otherwise everyone who puts away causing her to commit adultery, he who marries her that was put away also commits adultery and if the man who left her marries an other commits adultry. the woman that departs her self and re-marry comits adultery.
Now with those facts ,if we have a little fear of God (and some love) we are to see what really fornication means (we like it or no).
dictionaries make a diference and Scriptures too make a diference (can you ignore that?) 1) many times adultry is used in the same verse as diferent act of fornication and 2) never fornication were used to describe anything enter a married couple, any sin during marriage is considered as adultry while 3) every sexual sin out of marriage is considered as fornication.

If your consiense is ok with thisthen go for it!

The one who is ignoring something is you, and it is context you are ignoring. Matthew 19:9 is in reference to putting away and divorcing a WIFe, someone the man in MARRIED to, by definition. You cannot handle this fact.

[peter83]

Originally Posted by Originalist

The one who is ignoring something is you, and it is context you are ignoring. Matthew 19:9 is in reference to putting away and divorcing a WIFe, someone the man in MARRIED to, by definition. You cannot handle this fact.

-19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily."
-Abraham "send her (Hagar) away.


Now please look here brother. Jesus did not spoke about Adultery neither "not found his wife virgin" because :
1)Adultery was punish to death
2) If a man did not found his wife virgin ,she must be stoned to death!
Now lets see the Fornication:
Deut.22:28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; 29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days. Old testament ,when fornication happened the only solution FOR NOT PUT HER AWAY was to marry her. (thats why is the only reason ,Jesus allowed to put her away 17 If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins. You see ? she is not forced to marry him.That is the only reason to put her away and not be adulterous neither causing her to commit

Esdra 10:14 Let now our rulers of all the congregation stand, and let all them which have taken strange wives in our cities come at appointed times, and with them the elders of every city, and the judges thereof, until the fierce wrath of our God for this matter be turned from us.7
thats an other reason for putting away (not to kill ) named UNLAWFUL MARRIAGE . They were obligated to put away those women because were not lawful marriage, That is fornication too, like the Corinthian man who was living with his father`s wife!

i dont debate with you, i just see the subject with fear and respect,because we know there is not the will of God to divorce and except Matthew all other bible passages speak clearly against re-marriage , so we must see in context whatand why Matthew wrote that "exception" , (otherwise why to make so big deal with divorce and remarriage? any man who is so hard hearted and divorce he will sure remarry, then that means all we are free to re-marry when the other member "slips" )

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by peter83

-19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily."
-Abraham "send her (Hagar) away.


Now please look here brother. Jesus did not spoke about Adultery neither "not found his wife virgin" because :
1)Adultery was punish to death
2) If a man did not found his wife virgin ,she must be stoned to death!
Now lets see the Fornication:
Deut.22:28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; 29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days. Old testament ,when fornication happened the only solution FOR NOT PUT HER AWAY was to marry her. (thats why is the only reason ,Jesus allowed to put her away 17 If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins. You see ? she is not forced to marry him.That is the only reason to put her away and not be adulterous neither causing her to commit

Esdra 10:14 Let now our rulers of all the congregation stand, and let all them which have taken strange wives in our cities come at appointed times, and with them the elders of every city, and the judges thereof, until the fierce wrath of our God for this matter be turned from us.7
thats an other reason for putting away (not to kill ) named UNLAWFUL MARRIAGE . They were obligated to put away those women because were not lawful marriage, That is fornication too, like the Corinthian man who was living with his father`s wife!

i dont debate with you, i just see the subject with fear and respect,because we know there is not the will of God to divorce and except Matthew all other bible passages speak clearly against re-marriage , so we must see in context whatand why Matthew wrote that "exception" , (otherwise why to make so big deal with divorce and remarriage? any man who is so hard hearted and divorce he will sure remarry, then that means all we are free to re-marry when the other member "slips" )

It's all a matter of the Law, and how it was to be interpreted. This is not relevant to us, as I have explained.

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Jesus uses the term fornication, indicating a sexually immoral act outside the bounds of marriage. When married people commit a sexually immoral act, it's adultery. So, Jesus is clearly talking about a man putting away his betrothed due to a sexually immoral act committed during the betrothal.

Deut 22:23-24 seems to indicate sexual immorality by or with a betrothed woman is adulterous. Thus, the "fornication" Jesus mentioned would have occurred PRIOR to, not during, the betrothal.

Interesting point Esaias.