Question about Acts 2:38: What about the martyrs?

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Fruit that is of human will power, by salvation by works, is not correct fruit. Even the false tree had good in the knowledge of good and evil.

so, a bad tree can produce good fruit now. ok.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

The bible forbids doctrine of salvation by works.

Overall you're saying we cannot stand on a bible doctrine, and there really is no bible doctrine. And that is very wrong. It's the error that says so long as you're honest you're okay.

Again, tell that to the Good Sam.

i guess it's all in one's interpretation; i have already quoted, back there in quintuplicate, how doctrine will fail you. It is error to you, perhaps, but the truth of "Seek your own salvation" to me.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Get doctrine from scripture? Nahhh.

Don't misunderstand me--at least not any longer than you want to. Doctrine is fine, developed and applied personally. I have a great doctrine for you; "Love God and you neighbor as much as you love yourself." And if one just puts all other doctrine under this, how can they go wrong?

"All Muslims are lost" demonstrates an intrinsic misunderstanding of Christ, that a doctrine, obviously, has fostered. When a doctrine causes one to forget humility, it has become of no effect.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

Is islam a religion of non-violence, consisting of good samaritans?

The Lord Jesus spoke about a "good samaritan" (as an individual). The heart of the matter is
that no religion has a monopoly on good works; neither is any one religion free of hypocrisy.

Islam serves the natural man and the god of this world: not that there another God, but
men would rather serve the god they can relate to: one that condones murdering women
and children, as do muslims.

you illuminate the danger of over-generalizing, and perhaps of making assumptions. It is abundantly apparent that christians adhere to that evil god, also, and being as how i doubt any of us has yet to have a Muslim so much as knock on our doors for a cup of sugar, how about we turn off the news, from which every iota of "knowledge" of Islam comes, and tend to the beam in our eye. I mean, let's get some perspective shall we, as we sell guns--or give them away--to everyone, and discuss how to dissect fetuses for the most gain.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Is English your first language?

are we so far apart that all that is gibberish to you? Then by all means accept the challenge.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

i am not trying to "get it," mike, at least as long as "it" is how i might come to once again feel qualified to judge others. That is God's prerogative, however i do not believe the Good Samaritan would agree with your conclusions. So, if you wish to pursue this, you might provide an example of where God judged an individual based upon their doctrine, and we'll see what light may come of it.

Since i neither know nor care much about Muslim doctrine, i am left to reflect upon how Pent doctrine has remained from Azusa St to today, and the obvious differences that obtain--the point being that doctrine works great, until it replaces Scripture, i bet; the one being dead while the other is so alive. Doctrine is a trick, that one may imagine their salvation comes from a little ritual utterance and a dunk, and then they should go start imparting all their knowledge to others.

So show me where God has left off judging one's heart, and now judges doctrine, if you can; and see that this is futile, an invitation to place oneself back under the Law. Unless "Love your neighbor" has suddenly become a doctrine?

I don't think you know what doctrine is. It is teaching. And when Jesus us taught to love our neighbour he made a doctrine for us.

The heart is related to doctrine, because the heart believes, and you have to believe a doctrine to keep it. And if we do not believe his doctrine of loving our neighbour, then we won't love our neighbour, just as if we don't believe the doctrine that says salvation by works will send us to hell, then we will live by salvation by works.

You really must not know what doctrine is. What did you think it was?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

Don't misunderstand me--at least not any longer than you want to. Doctrine is fine, developed and applied personally. I have a great doctrine for you; "Love God and you neighbor as much as you love yourself." And if one just puts all other doctrine under this, how can they go wrong?

"All Muslims are lost" demonstrates an intrinsic misunderstanding of Christ, that a doctrine, obviously, has fostered. When a doctrine causes one to forget humility, it has become of no effect.

No, saying no one can claim all Muslims are lost is not understanding Christ at all. His word says salvation by works will send us to hell. And the Muslim Faith is salvation by works. Hello?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

Again, tell that to the Good Sam.

i guess it's all in one's interpretation; i have already quoted, back there in quintuplicate, how doctrine will fail you. It is error to you, perhaps, but the truth of "Seek your own salvation" to me.

Yo are so far from truth it is really astounding. I've rarely seen someone read the bible and come up your claims.

The Good Samaritan story taught about love, but it did not teach that the wounded man whom he helped was saved or not just because he helped him. In fact, if the wounded man could fit into our duscussion it would be this way.... A person is beaten up by error and lost due to the damaging effects of an abominable false teaching, like salvation by works. The Good Samaritan applied the oil and wine of Gods spirit and teaching of the blood that remits sins, rather than remission by works. And he took him to the innkeeper of the church to be strengthened and nourished spiritually.

It is doing kindness to everyone we can. But of all the kindness we can show, none is greater than sharing the gospel.


How in the world does the Good Samaritan story support your idea that one can be saved by salvation by works? How does it teach you cannot tell a Muslim he's lost?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

so, a bad tree can produce good fruit now. ok.

Don't avoid it. Nice try. It's the combination of good and evil in the way of mere knowledge. Is the word "good" in the name of the false tree in the Garden? Yes or no?

[mfblume]

Joe: "God's word says the doctrine of salvation by works will send us to hell."

Muslim: "My doctrine is salvation by works and I believe it with all my heart. Are you saying I am lost."

John: " Yes, Muslim. Joe is judging you."

Joe: "I just repeated what the word of God said. I made no calls and did not write that word. God inspired the biblical writers to write it, and even there God made the call, not them."

John: "nope. You read that word of God and say it is true, and apply its consequences to someone who admits they believe salvation by works is the way, then you judged that person, not God nor the word of God."

Joe: " So, I cannot tell Muslim that the word of God says he's lost, when he admitted that he believes what the bible says about salvation by works? I cannot tell him what the bible said about those who believe his doctrine and follow it?"

John: "exactly. You judge people who believe in salvation by works when you tell them that God said they're lost if they keep the doctrine of salvation by works."

Joe: "So, you're saying I cannot preach to people what the bible says?"

John: "No. You have to preach. Preach. You just cannot judge."

Joe: "but if I preach God said those who believe salvation by works are lost, then you say I am judging. I just repeated what God said. I'm only the messenger."

John: "nope. When you preach that part of the bible you are judging, not God."

The world has officially gone bonkers.