I thought there was a bit of discussion about standards and how they vary from district to district.
Br "E"s a prime example of how ones convctions can become non biblical man made standards, enforced as though God penned the scripture that some think is in the bible. "Men be thou clean shaven" Steve 3:16
I'm sorry. After I hit submit I thought it would come across that way. LOL! I was just wanting to express how I feel and did not mean to target you being a "busybody".
I suppose you are right. In some discussions it might be necessary to bring out an example. I think, at times, it may not be possible to avoid that.
Amen, but I believe that people feel they've been hurt and want to voice that. It would not be the way I would handle it, but to each his own I suppose.
I believe that everything I go through is a learning experience and there is no need to continue to complain. It would mean, to me, that I am lacking faith. And it would mean, to me, that I am not listening to God who always guides and comforts.
Sometimes people who are hurt need to talk to work through their hurt. Sometimes others need to know they aren't the only ones who have been hurt-talking about it can become part of that "great cloud of witnesses" if kept positive.
There are some people that have been so deeply hurt that they don't trust God. Been there. If others hadn't shared with me how they got through it, and been compassionate and prayerful, I'd have left God long ago.
I know you know that, not disputing your post, just adding a bit.
Sometimes people who are hurt need to talk to work through their hurt. Sometimes others need to know they aren't the only ones who have been hurt-talking about it can become part of that "great cloud of witnesses" if kept positive.
There are some people that have been so deeply hurt that they don't trust God. Been there. If others hadn't shared with me how they got through it, and been compassionate and prayerful, I'd have left God long ago.
I know you know that, not disputing your post, just adding a bit.
I agree with what you are saying. I would only be against the "enabler". The person allowing the hurt to be voiced and gnawed on like a bone. That helps no one.
I'm sorry. After I hit submit I thought it would come across that way. LOL! I was just wanting to express how I feel and did not mean to target you being a "busybody".
I suppose you are right. In some discussions it might be necessary to bring out an example. I think, at times, it may not be possible to avoid that.
You're OK PO...still love ya. ;-)
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God has lavished his love upon me.
I think everyone here believes in modesty, but even in the ranks of the UPCI standards vary so much from church to church that it seems that even they don't have a consistent agreement. This is because many of them are just pastoral whims, and UPC Pastor A and UPC Pastor B have different degrees of whimsicality.
As for the line drawn and the bar raised or lowered, that is as much a personal conviction issue with regards to a persons relationship with Jesus. Not a dictate from a pastor. We draw the line as we from the heart grow in grace.
Does that muzzle the preacher. Nope. There is a whole bible filled with biblical principles from cover to cover to preach from. We grow as learn to apply those principles and that covers a whole lot more than wardrobe.
God didn't give us his Spirit to lead and guide us if all we needed was another book of laws. Nor did he call and raise up the ministry as a law-making body. Anyone can line up to a dress code...muslims do it everyday.
My biggest issue with "standards" is how they are used to "Draw the line, set the bar" by people, often through misuse and misinterpretation of the Word, and then used to benchmark other believers and reject them based on externals. It foments an elitist mentality and attitude of "We got it and they don't". Something I believe the Lord finds abhorrent.
In passing let me mention Deuteronomy 22, as this was discussed. It isn't a buffet table where one can just grab the verse that seems to support their position, and discount the rest.
Good points!
Here's where I'm at:
I think that everyone can agree on the fact the first churches (epistles) without doubt laid down a number of dress codes. Now with that knowledge, do we:
1 - Try to decipher these dress codes and apply them today?
2 - Try to understand the thought process used in creating these dress codes and apply this process to a 21st Century application?
I think the UPCI has done a little bit of both which has yielded some uncanny results (no beards, open-toed shoes, etc.)
But what I don't know that I can live with is the idea that dress standards are to only be a personal conviction. That is just not supported in the Bible and I would venture to say that even the most open-minded member on here would have some issues if their respective platform staff showed up Sun. morning with purple hair, tattoo's, tongue piercing etc. And as result feel that something should be done or said. ...be honest!
Bottom line is:
I think everyone, (Apostolic's, Baptist's, Catholic's etc.) has a line that they feel should be drawn. I don't see eye-to-eye with every issue, but instead of just tearing down we have to acknowledge that all of us have some sort of personal standard and begin to consider how we can ever reconcile the differences? I know, I know, standards should not be crammed down throats, and taken out of context! I AGREE MORE THAN YOU KNOW! But having no standards is just unrealistic - every religion, workplace, and business does.
Propose a change! Don't just complain about the obvious. But that's a bigger task than what any of us imagine. In this light, I can't throw that many stones at the UPCI
I don't dress provocatively - I dress modest.
I don't drink or go to bars to hang out.
I don't gossip or backbite.
I don't have a haughty or better than you attitude.
I don't judge others.
I go with my convictions that COME from God - - they aren't really mine.
They came from God?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
I agree with what you are saying. I would only be against the "enabler". The person allowing the hurt to be voiced and gnawed on like a bone. That helps no one.
Yes, when the discussion becomes a bitter, repetitive outpouring of former hurts, rather than a statement of, "yes, this happened to me and you can make it too," or "ouch, this happened to me, what should I do?" there is or will be a problem. No one's wounds heal when they are picking the scabs.
Yes, when the discussion becomes a bitter, repetitive outpouring of former hurts, rather than a statement of, "yes, this happened to me and you can make it too," or "ouch, this happened to me, what should I do?" there is or will be a problem. No one's wounds heal when they are picking the scabs.
Amen, well said. Gotta run. Have a great evening! Is today Wednesday? LOL!
You know what my point about all of this is? A question for those that are against the UPCI and what they stand for. Renda may want to move this to it's own thread.
We have been through our share of trouble, but being guided by the Lord, He says to stay and see it through, He will bring the victory. We have seen this happen.
Now, the question - What would those opposing the UPCI have us do? Walk away from the will of God or obey His direction - "Stay where you are and see it through"? With "standards" and other trappings that some disagree with and some things we are not in total agreement, He says to stay.
I think this is a very serious question and matter. For those, adamantly, pushing against the UPCI and it's leadership, it appears to me that they are interfering in people's lives and the direction God would have them walk.
It is my opinion that we are being perfected and must be very careful to walk through and not around situations, circumstances, trials, etc., that we face. We must always go to God and find direction.
It appears to me, from observation, that some are directing and counseling others to find their own direction and make their own decisions.
I believe that part of being perfected (maturing) is going through trials, learning, growing, etc. After all, "In patience, possess ye your souls."
We always know, "And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ."
And so, the question:
If God is telling me to stay where I am, how do I and how should I take those that oppose where I serve?
I need to log out, but I don't believe my questions were answered. Would someone care to indulge me? The questions in bold......
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