Sit Down and Behave Yourself!

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

How does this differ from outright paganism?
http://witchgrotto.mirocommunity.org...cstatic-trance

Pagans don't worship the one true God. They don't trust in Jesus as their savior. They aren't rejoicing that their sins are forgiven.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Exactly what I DON'T miss. Play the piano and beat the drums as fast as you can without any substance, just get the people excited. Cotton-Candy church, there is no substance.

You just assumed that was all they did. You assumed there was just a fast beat through the entire service, no quality teaching or preaching, no worship songs with substance

I've been to Thad's church. That is not how it starts out. They have several songs of worshipful praise leading up to the "fast" stuff, if they even have the fast stuff

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Jeremyn, I was exceedingly wicked, and I'm not about to go into here, but the more I contemplate my wickedness, and his holinenes, and how great his grace and mecry was in my life, tears fill my eyes, rather than make me want to get down as if the church was the Club.

I preach in the prisons to the "worst" of sinners by the worlds standards, and those who have come to Christ are overwhelmed by His love and mercy and grace, when nearly everyone else has written them off and judged them Christ reaches for them, and doesn't look at them the same way. I've seen men in such circumstances moved by the gospel presentation, but never seen one of them stand up run around an do cartwheels r roll all over the floor. Of course there is no music when preaching in the jail, so the response is more natural. The music is used as a tool to hype people up.

So everyone has to react and act JUST LIKE YOU?

Hey, if you were there at the gate called Beautiful, without music, you would have saw a man that had just been delivered get up and start leaping! But according to Jason that's not natural. Good grief.

Jason I seen a lot of people come to Christ and weep, then later rejoice with dance or shouting or whatever. Your way is not the only way to react

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Jeremyn, I was exceedingly wicked, and I'm not about to go into here, but the more I contemplate my wickedness, and his holinenes, and how great his grace and mecry was in my life, tears fill my eyes, rather than make me want to get down as if the church was the Club.

I preach in the prisons to the "worst" of sinners by the worlds standards, and those who have come to Christ are overwhelmed by His love and mercy and grace, when nearly everyone else has written them off and judged them Christ reaches for them, and doesn't look at them the same way. I've seen men in such circumstances moved by the gospel presentation, but never seen one of them stand up run around an do cartwheels r roll all over the floor. Of course there is no music when preaching in the jail, so the response is more natural. The music is used as a tool to hype people up.

And yet scripture tells us to praise God in song and with musical instruments. And yes, some even dance before the Lord. It does not however instruct how fast or slow to do so. And yet in these same churches you are criticizing, I am sure they have people weeping and on their knees before God, humbled by His grace, mercy, and love for them.

[MarcBee]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

Interesting video.

http://youtu.be/eBpw2oQrvMM

This is part 1 of a 3 part series. I found it fascinating, it definitely made me think a little outside my own box. I haven't really processed completely how I feel about what he said. I am planning to get the book and read it.

This gentleman's historicism (in the YT clip) is pretty lame. He is claiming that 1994, the "Toronto Blessing" is the watershed for when these behaviors (fits of laughing "bestowed", for example) arrived in full. But I recall seeing this same stuff in charismatic "revivals" as a kid in 1973, Vacaville, CA. Then again saw it all during my experience in A of G, Lincoln, NE 1978, and often mentioned by/taught about by Kenneth Copeland on radio, 1978. Saw LOTS of "Jerking in the Spirit" (my term) during my years in P.A.W., 1979-1987.

Good grief, none of it is new, and not even "fringe" by 1993. But Youtube empowers anyone to foist whatever theories they wish. (And that's a good thing in general, however, caveat emptor!)

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by MarcBee

This gentleman's historicism (in the YT clip) is pretty lame. He is claiming that 1994, the "Toronto Blessing" is the watershed for when these behaviors (fits of laughing "bestowed", for example) arrived in full. But I recall seeing this same stuff in charismatic "revivals" as a kid in 1973, Vacaville, CA. Then again saw it all during my experience in A of G, Lincoln, NE 1978, and often mentioned by/taught about by Kenneth Copeland on radio, 1978. Saw LOTS of "Jerking in the Spirit" (my term) during my years in P.A.W., 1979-1987.

Good grief, none of it is new, and not even "fringe" by 1993. But Youtube empowers anyone to foist whatever theories they wish. (And that's a good thing in general, however, caveat emptor!)

You're right. In fact the shouting methodists exhibited it too. The difference is the did not make it a practice everyone had to follow

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by MarcBee

This gentleman's historicism (in the YT clip) is pretty lame. He is claiming that 1994, the "Toronto Blessing" is the watershed for when these behaviors (fits of laughing "bestowed", for example) arrived in full. But I recall seeing this same stuff in charismatic "revivals" as a kid in 1973, Vacaville, CA. Then again saw it all during my experience in A of G, Lincoln, NE 1978, and often mentioned by/taught about by Kenneth Copeland on radio, 1978. Saw LOTS of "Jerking in the Spirit" (my term) during my years in P.A.W., 1979-1987.

Good grief, none of it is new, and not even "fringe" by 1993. But Youtube empowers anyone to foist whatever theories they wish. (And that's a good thing in general, however, caveat emptor!)

Exactly. It's definitely not new.

I don't know much about the guy speaking in these videos. I know he has written several books. I do plan on getting this one and seeing what he has to say in text format. Depending on what I think of this one, I may pick up a few more and see if I can get a better feel for what this guy believes and teaches.

I do know there are similarities between paganism and Christianity (going back through the OT into Judaism, even). It can become a little challenging to decipher which came first and is drawing from the other, I'm sure a case can be made either way in some instances! The differences remain striking, however.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Cindy

And yet scripture tells us to praise God in song and with musical instruments. And yes, some even dance before the Lord. It does not however instruct how fast or slow to do so. And yet in these same churches you are criticizing, I am sure they have people weeping and on their knees before God, humbled by His grace, mercy, and love for them.

Cindy, Prax, and Untraditional.

I'mnot against music, I'm not against upbeat or fast music (was listening to Joe Pace on the way to and from church, pretty upbeat style) and I'm not saying that people have to react the way I choose to. I've got nearly 3,500 posts when have I ever said any of those things, at least give me the benefit of the doubt.

So to clairify, I am against "worship" that is emotionalism, such as in the video. For example the people are being goaded into reacting by the worhsip leader saying "come on praise Him" "come on choir" etc. I watched the video last night, and don't care to watch it again right now, but I recall alot of people were just kind moving in place,just kind of moving whatever way the leaders move them. There were only a handful of choir members "worshipping" l all over the place until they got called out by a man.

I'm not against getting into a service, I am against losing control, working yourself into a frenzy, etc.

Prax, you're good with scripture, can you give me some precedent for this kind of worship in the New Testament church?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Cindy, Prax, and Untraditional.

I'mnot against music, I'm not against upbeat or fast music (was listening to Joe Pace on the way to and from church, pretty upbeat style) and I'm not saying that people have to react the way I choose to. I've got nearly 3,500 posts when have I ever said any of those things, at least give me the benefit of the doubt.

So to clairify, I am against "worship" that is emotionalism, such as in the video. For example the people are being goaded into reacting by the worhsip leader saying "come on praise Him" "come on choir" etc. I watched the video last night, and don't care to watch it again right now, but I recall alot of people were just kind moving in place,just kind of moving whatever way the leaders move them. There were only a handful of choir members "worshipping" l all over the place until they got called out by a man.

I'm not against getting into a service, I am against losing control, working yourself into a frenzy, etc.

Prax, you're good with scripture, can you give me some precedent for this kind of worship in the New Testament church?

I know what youj are against. The NT? The NT doesn't even give a precedent for music, are you now gonna say music is wrong? Why does it have to be ONLY in the NT?

I maintain what I said earlier

[acerrak]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I know what youj are against. The NT? The NT doesn't even give a precedent for music, are you now gonna say music is wrong? Why does it have to be ONLY in the NT?

I maintain what I said earlier

in the parable of the lost son, when the younger brother came home, the father through a party, there was music and dancing in celebration. That lets me know we can do the same exspecially to praise the Father