Love neighbor, love God (the Jesus creed)
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In all things, seek the work of the Spirit in sanctification to mature us. Be sensitive and open to God's promptings, not as illegitimate children with no father.
Why don't we all, as Apostolics, just love each other the way we are, and live what we believe is right?
I don't remember Jesus telling anyone to change their clothes before He would heal them or eat with them. One parable about clothes-about the wedding garments. And I'll say again, I have a uc background but I'm still saying this. I'm not defending my stance.
But there is this, and it's been at the back of my mind for a while:
Luke 9
49And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
50And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.
Mark 9
38And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
39But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
40For he that is not against us is on our part.
41For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.
42And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
That is probably true to some extent, but what I am seeing is that many are just going with their own convictions.
The women that don't have a problem with long hair or wearing a dress are dressing their personal convictions on those lines. I think MissBratt has said that as well.
One example would be that their hair is long, but they are trimming it. Simply because the scripture isn't clear enough on that. My Son-in-law sports a beard and is totally accepted. No one cares or thinks its unscriptural.
The thing is, I haven't seen some of the stances against many things, in the places that I have lived, for a very long time. I guess it's location, location, location.
That's why I don't push wearing slacks on anyone - - if their conviction is wearing dresses all the time, then that's fine with me. However, they think I'm going to hell for wearing slacks. SINCE, that is NOT a Biblical principle and I feel it's okay between God and I that I do wear slacks - - why is it okay to push their "personal" conviction on me?
Right, we shouldn't push our convictions on others.
I do think the org, and I don't usually elaborate on these issues either way aside from strictly debating scripture, is that they must refine the language of "it's not a heaven or hell issue" but then not use someone in a leadership position if someone chooses to do those things that are not supposed to be heaven or hell. That was a long sentence! LOL!
There are platform standards which any church is welcome to hold and has the right to demand of it's members.
But pushing a compliance while saying it is not a heaven or hell issue is not going to work and is confusing. We will have to iron that one out.
I still believe we are in a transition and not fully transitioned that pants are visually acceptable for a women. Still, at the grocery store, you get compliments on dress and hair. It's still a perception, IMO. I think the UPCI isn't sure they want to go there. I mean walk away from that.
For instance, in the clip that Daniel provided, DKB comments, and it has been my observation as well, that many people are attending mainstream churches, but not living up to full Christian standards of living. My Dentist from Burma made the same observation to me after visiting a huge Charismatic church in our area. She was very turned off and never went back. So, on our part, we see this and wonder if we will go that way.
I believe that Benincasa made the comment, on another thread, that people coming from other countries backslide when they live here. It is showing that the American churches, as a whole, are lacking.
I just received an update from Focus on the Family who is staging some meeting about our Youth that are not attending church in this country. They are not speaking of the UPCI, but the church at large. Something is desperately wrong - all they way around.
Last edited by Pressing-On; 01-20-2010 at 03:40 PM.
God didn't give us his Spirit to lead and guide us if all we needed was another book of laws. Nor did he call and raise up the ministry as a law-making body.
Now, the question - What would those opposing the UPCI have us do? Walk away from the will of God or obey His direction - "Stay where you are and see it through"? With "standards" and other trappings that some disagree with and some things we are not in total agreement, He says to stay.
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Sorry there PO, didn't mean to be a "busybody"
I thought there was a bit of discussion about standards and how they vary from district to district.
Br "E"s a prime example of how ones convctions can become non biblical man made standards, enforced as though God penned the scripture that some think is in the bible. "Men be thou clean shaven" Steve 3:16
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God has lavished his love upon me.
Why don't we all, as Apostolics, just love each other the way we are, and live what we believe is right?
If you look at the diversity on AFF, and the fact that for the most part everyone gets along, even though they may disagree, even vehemently, very few posters are ever outwardly hateful here.
I'd have to say we really aren't doing too bad a job of it.
Why don't we all, as Apostolics, just love each other the way we are, and live what we believe is right?
I don't remember Jesus telling anyone to change their clothes before He would heal them or eat with them. One parable about clothes-about the wedding garments. And I'll say again, I have a uc background but I'm still saying this. I'm not defending my stance.
But there is this, and it's been at the back of my mind for a while:
Luke 9
49And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
50And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.
Mark 9
38And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
39But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
40For he that is not against us is on our part.
41For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.
42And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
Amen, but I believe that people feel they've been hurt and want to voice that. It would not be the way I would handle it, but to each his own I suppose.
I believe that everything I go through is a learning experience and there is no need to continue to complain. It would mean, to me, that I am lacking faith. And it would mean, to me, that I am not listening to God who always guides and comforts.
I haven't seen anyone-OP or denominal-that has a good answer that has been put into action and really worked.
At some point we may have to consider whether we would prefer people who disagree with us to not worship any god at all, or to worship the same one God in different ways...
If you look at the diversity on AFF, and the fact that for the most part everyone gets along, even though they may disagree, even vehemently, very few posters are ever outwardly hateful here.
I'd have to say we really aren't doing too bad a job of it.
Yes, overall, I'd say that AFF is doing a much better job of that than many people I've met personally. Maybe those I've met personally are on the fringe. I hope so.
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