What's your view on Hell?

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Was it a parable? I’m not sure if it was or wasn’t. The best way I know of to tell if it was would be to figure out who He was addressing. Because He was known to address the multitude and it seems, especially the Pharisees and Sadducees in parables.

[10] And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
[11] He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

So, He spoke to the disciples differently than He spoke to the masses and especially the religious elite.

[34] All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
[35] That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

So, it begs the question, to whom was He speaking?

Luke.16

[1] And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.

So He begins speaking to the disciples in Luke 16. But then the Pharisees seemed to be eavesdropping.

[14] And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
[15] And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

Then it seems that He is talking to the Pharisees and the context is that they are covetous, which is certainly a moral issue.

I believe that this is a parable. I believe it is concerning morality. Both the Old and New Testament are consistent in caring for the poor as a moral obligation.

So that’s my opinion, for now. Someone is welcome to provide scripture to change my opinion though. I’ll listen.

Good post.

Some have pointed out here that the lesson of the story is rich go to hell and homeless go to heaven. This story has a context. Jesus has been to this point rebuking the Pharisees of lacking mercy and not doing alms for the poor. And now we are presented with this parable, which Jesus starts by illustrating a very sharp contrast between a rich man and a homeless man, and a rich man that doesn't comfort the homeless man. All of this in the context of the people of God, Israel, so they were both children of Abraham, basically brothers.
It is straight forward to realize what this parable means, which is what you said, the moral obligation to love your neighbor as your self, especially those in the family in the faith.

[Amanah]

Just to set the record straight, I'm in the conditional immortality/annihilation camp.

John 3:16
King James Version
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

My comments on the parable being about heaven/hell were sarcasm.

That being said, hades, hell and the grave are all the same word.

Luk 16:23 - And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

Strongs G86 hell
hah'-dace; from G1 (as negative particle) and G1492; properly, unseen, i.e. "Hades" or the place (state) of departed souls:—grave, hell.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by coksiw

Good post.

Some have pointed out here that the lesson of the story is rich go to hell and homeless go to heaven. This story has a context. Jesus has been to this point rebuking the Pharisees of lacking mercy and not doing alms for the poor. And now we are presented with this parable, which Jesus starts by illustrating a very sharp contrast between a rich man and a homeless man, and a rich man that doesn't comfort the homeless man. All of this in the context of the people of God, Israel, so they were both children of Abraham, basically brothers.
It is straight forward to realize what this parable means, which is what you said, the moral obligation to love your neighbor as your self, especially those in the family in the faith.

Thanks for fleshing out my post. You are correct that it’s not simply a matter of rich and poor. It’s not rich=bad and poor = good. Because Abraham was a wealthy man. Very much so. It seems to be a matter of being wealthy and having much resources AND not allowing Lazarus so much as the crumbs from his table.

Which was not allowed. Not in the first covenant. And not in the second. Jesus accused the Pharisees (remember) of devouring widows houses. Also he rebuked them severely for allowing them to skirt the commandment to honor your father and mother by allowing them to declare that their goods were “Corban” which meant it was designated for the temple.

It seems to be obvious (to me anyway) that He was carrying on the theme of “woe to the Pharisees”. They weren’t compassionate to the poor. And Jesus reaaally didn’t like them for it.

[Tithesmeister]

It seems to me that hell has different meanings depending on where and how it’s used.

Jonah was in hell in the belly of the fish.

Jonah.2

[2] And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.

In Proverbs you can save your children from hell by beating the hell out of them?!

Prov.23

[14] Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.

It’s interesting that the word hell occurs only 64 times in the entire KJV.

Contrast that with heaven being mentioned more than eight hundred (not necessarily in context).

[diakonos]

So much word salad on this thread.

[1 God]

Originally Posted by coksiw

What do you consider "hint"?

Parables are for the spiritual to understand and the unspiritual to not understand. Anyone can understand the rich man/Lazarus scenario. It was not hidden from the hardened hearts. This passage has zero references as per the actual parables that are described elsewhere.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by 1 God

Parables are for the spiritual to understand and the unspiritual to not understand. Anyone can understand the rich man/Lazarus scenario.

Except you, apparently.

[1 God]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Except you, apparently.

There actually wasn’t a certain rich man....There actually wasn’t a certain beggar named Lazarus...? Is that what you think Jesus was thinking about while telling of this event?

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by 1 God

Parables are for the spiritual to understand and the unspiritual to not understand. Anyone can understand the rich man/Lazarus scenario. It was not hidden from the hardened hearts. This passage has zero references as per the actual parables that are described elsewhere.

Here is a counterexample to your definition:

Mat 21:33-45 NKJV - 33 "Hear another parable: There was a certain landowner who planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a winepress in it and built a tower. And he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country. 34 "Now when vintage-time drew near, he sent his servants to the vinedressers, that they might receive its fruit. 35 "And the vinedressers took his servants, beat one, killed one, and stoned another. 36 "Again he sent other servants, more than the first, and they did likewise to them. 37 "Then last of all he sent his son to them, saying, 'They will respect my son.' 38 "But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, 'This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.' 39 "So they took him and cast [him] out of the vineyard and killed [him]. 40 "Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?" 41 They said to Him, "He will destroy those wicked men miserably, and lease [his] vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons." 42 Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures: 'The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone. This was the LORD's doing, And it is marvelous in our eyes' ? 43 "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it. 44 "And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder." 45 Now when the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they perceived that He was speaking of them.

The chief priests and Pharisees, who we agree are those with "hardened hearts", were able to understand the parable.

Could you explain how this aligns with your definition of parable?

[1 God]

Originally Posted by coksiw

Here is a counterexample to your definition:

Mat 21:33-45 NKJV - 33 "Hear another parable: There was a certain landowner who planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a winepress in it and built a tower. And he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country. 34 "Now when vintage-time drew near, he sent his servants to the vinedressers, that they might receive its fruit. 35 "And the vinedressers took his servants, beat one, killed one, and stoned another. 36 "Again he sent other servants, more than the first, and they did likewise to them. 37 "Then last of all he sent his son to them, saying, 'They will respect my son.' 38 "But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, 'This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.' 39 "So they took him and cast [him] out of the vineyard and killed [him]. 40 "Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?" 41 They said to Him, "He will destroy those wicked men miserably, and lease [his] vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons." 42 Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures: 'The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone. This was the LORD's doing, And it is marvelous in our eyes' ? 43 "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it. 44 "And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder." 45 Now when the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they perceived that He was speaking of them.

The chief priests and Pharisees, who we agree are those with "hardened hearts", were able to understand the parable.

Could you explain how this aligns with your definition of parable?

What do the 1st 3 words say? Now, are these 3 words in the rich man/Lazarus explanation of Jesus?

To answer your question. Mark 4:11-12