I have Left the UPC Church

[Brett Prince]

Originally Posted by Michlow

I haven't been around much lately, and when I am, I mainly lurk. Many of you on here, have known me for over 3 years now, through all the various incarnations of the forum. You saw me liberal, and then conservative, and then go back to the liberal side of things. You have witnessed many changes in my character, some good, some bad.

I have always tried to be transparent and honest about my spriritual journey. I have never been one to shy away from admitting my struggles or doubts.

So with that in mind, I share the lastest chapter. Several weeks back, I made the decision to leave the apostolic church completely. Truth be told, for a long time, I was only halfway in. Yes, I questioned standards. But there were many other things I questioned as well. Recently I realized that I had reached a point where there was more that I disagreed with, that what I agreed with. I also realized that I no longer identified myself as "apostolic" or "upc", but simply as "christian" or a "believer". So the change is pretty minimal.

So Ultra-Con's, you can put on your sackcloth and ashes; and liberals you can rejoice

Since I am really neither con nor lib, but a moderate, I wish that I could moderate.

Mich, I have walked much of this same road. I went from con to lib, back to con, and back to lib in many regards--and finally realized that I was fighting a battle that was somebody else's. My trouble was that I was trying to fit myself into somebody's "camp," where I didn't belong. As soon as I realized I differed with somebody, strongly, in a certain area, I seemed to just go jump into the other camp. I have done the same with endtime prophecy as well. I soon realized that I just had to be who I was.

I came to some conclusions about myself, and decided to stand there--and you are going to have to do the same.

I shall list some of mine.

I knew I would never be satisfied with:

1) Trinitarian doctrine. I believe it is patently false and a lie straight out of paganism.

2) Any other baptism but Jesus Name.

3) Professing the Spirit, without the demonstration thereof.

4) Worship that was not, at times, very demonstrative.

5) The display of the Gifts of the Spirit in worship services.

6) The level of modesty (or immodesty) displayed by the majority of Christendom.

7) The blurring of the visual lines between genders.

8) The level of dedication to God and to His work that I see in other circles.

9) Preaching without passion.

10) Trending towards whatever the new book, idea, or motif the other churches are doing, i.e, the Prayer of Jabez, the Rule of Six, Prosperity, Purpose Driven Life, etc. etc. (I am not saying that all of this is wrong, but it seems like churches go after something for a while, then change to follow something else.)

Everything does not have to be a salvational issue for me to believe it or follow it. I cannot follow what my spirit is not with. I cannot constantly halt between two opinions. I have to obey the voice of the Spirit, and let my inner man take the lead. I have to be what I am, whether that fits one camp or the other. If I am rejected by one side or the other, I just have to plod on. I am willing to make minor adjustments in my way in order to have fellowship with a group that is similarly minded, but I refuse to "play the part" or "go along" just to have some friends. I no longer "have leanings" toward this or that. I just accept where I am, and do my best to move forward and learn more.

Okay, enough rambling. I don't know if I am making any sense--and this probably has nothing to do with where you are. You're post just got me in a certain vein and I'm sharing. If it helps, thank God. If it doesn't...sorry for hijacking.

Bless you, Sister. I hope you have peace.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by CareyM

That's good to hear! Mich and I haven't talked in awhile...and you just never know with that girl!

Well, what can ya expect from someone whose screen name used to be Michelob? Well, that was her avatar.

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by CareyM

Well Mich, I'm not exactly what kind of response you are expecting. I will always love you for the person you are, regardless if you attend church or not. I can't say I'm happy you've left UPC, because from what I've heard from you, you had a pretty decent pastor.

I suppose this might be considered "preacher bashing" or get me labeled as bitter...etc.. but Yes, I did have a "pretty decent" pastor as far as UPC goes It's not about him personally, it's bigger than that. I mean, when it was just standards, it was fine. I could go there, and no one judged me or treated me poorly for not following them. But it's beyond that.

I know there are areas where we disagree, but I think our friendship can surpass those obstacles! I love ya girl!

Originally Posted by Rico

Sister, all hope is not lost. I believe Sister Mich is considering at least one other apostolic church about 40 miles away.

LOL, is that one of those speak those things that aren't as though they are, charismatic things? I would love to visit Bro. Tatums church on occasion, but Its an hour drive, and I doubt I will make it a regular thing!

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by Brett Prince

Since I am really neither con nor lib, but a moderate, I wish that I could moderate.

Mich, I have walked much of this same road. I went from con to lib, back to con, and back to lib in many regards--and finally realized that I was fighting a battle that was somebody else's. My trouble was that I was trying to fit myself into somebody's "camp," where I didn't belong. As soon as I realized I differed with somebody, strongly, in a certain area, I seemed to just go jump into the other camp. I have done the same with endtime prophecy as well. I soon realized that I just had to be who I was.

I came to some conclusions about myself, and decided to stand there--and you are going to have to do the same.

I shall list some of mine.

I knew I would never be satisfied with:

1) Trinitarian doctrine. I believe it is patently false and a lie straight out of paganism.

2) Any other baptism but Jesus Name.

3) Professing the Spirit, without the demonstration thereof.

4) Worship that was not, at times, very demonstrative.

5) The display of the Gifts of the Spirit in worship services.

6) The level of modesty (or immodesty) displayed by the majority of Christendom.

7) The blurring of the visual lines between genders.

8) The level of dedication to God and to His work that I see in other circles.

9) Preaching without passion.

10) Trending towards whatever the new book, idea, or motif the other churches are doing, i.e, the Prayer of Jabez, the Rule of Six, Prosperity, Purpose Driven Life, etc. etc. (I am not saying that all of this is wrong, but it seems like churches go after something for a while, then change to follow something else.)

Everything does not have to be a salvational issue for me to believe it or follow it. I cannot follow what my spirit is not with. I cannot constantly halt between two opinions. I have to obey the voice of the Spirit, and let my inner man take the lead. I have to be what I am, whether that fits one camp or the other. If I am rejected by one side or the other, I just have to plod on. I am willing to make minor adjustments in my way in order to have fellowship with a group that is similarly minded, but I refuse to "play the part" or "go along" just to have some friends. I no longer "have leanings" toward this or that. I just accept where I am, and do my best to move forward and learn more.

Okay, enough rambling. I don't know if I am making any sense--and this probably has nothing to do with where you are. You're post just got me in a certain vein and I'm sharing. If it helps, thank God. If it doesn't...sorry for hijacking.

Bless you, Sister. I hope you have peace.

Bro. Prince. You are right when you say that we need to determine where we stand, and not necessarily align ourselves based on what those around us believe. I am a person who strives to be as transparent and open as I can, so I have shared a lot of my doubts and struggles over the years. Though I have no doubt that I did appear to go back and forth, and though I went through stages where I either accepted (i.e. followed) or rejected standards, I never actually left the Apostolic church.

In the 7 years I have been a Christian, only three times have I attended a non-UPC church. One was a wedding (Lutheren), and two were charistmatic and attended as part of a "You go to my church, I'll go to yours" type deal. So I can't make a lot of judgements about what the churches of other denominations are like. I have not fairly examined any of the doctrines, such as the Trinity, except through the writings of OP apologetics.

The truth is, that everything I have studied out, has been filtered through the doctrine that I was taught in the Apostolic church. You may say "but that's OK, they taught you Truth". Then that should bear out in the end, as I truly believe that the Truth can withstand any amount of scrutiny.

Right now, spiritually, I am like a teenager. All I know is what my spiritual parents have taught me. I have now come to a place where I must make it my own, or find my own path.

Originally Posted by Michlow

I truly believe that the Truth can withstand any amount of scrutiny.

TRUTH can, sis.

What's left after you've sifted it, will be Truth.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Michlow

I suppose this might be considered "preacher bashing" or get me labeled as bitter...etc.. but Yes, I did have a "pretty decent" pastor as far as UPC goes It's not about him personally, it's bigger than that. I mean, when it was just standards, it was fine. I could go there, and no one judged me or treated me poorly for not following them. But it's beyond that.

I know there are areas where we disagree, but I think our friendship can surpass those obstacles! I love ya girl!



LOL, is that one of those speak those things that aren't as though they are, charismatic things? I would love to visit Bro. Tatums church on occasion, but Its an hour drive, and I doubt I will make it a regular thing!

Maybe, but as soon as the Lord moves upon you to move you will probly be a lot closer!

[COOPER]

is this the thread that has Boom upset?

[ChTatum]

Originally Posted by Rico

Maybe, but as soon as the Lord moves upon you to move you will probly be a lot closer!

Now brother, don't presume the office of prophet......

[Rico]

Originally Posted by ChTatum

Now brother, don't presume the office of prophet......

No prophesying here, Bro. Just speaking in faith for my Sister.

[LaVonne]

Originally Posted by Michlow

I suppose this might be considered "preacher bashing" or get me labeled as bitter...etc.. but Yes, I did have a "pretty decent" pastor as far as UPC goes It's not about him personally, it's bigger than that. I mean, when it was just standards, it was fine. I could go there, and no one judged me or treated me poorly for not following them. But it's beyond that.

I know there are areas where we disagree, but I think our friendship can surpass those obstacles! I love ya girl!



LOL, is that one of those speak those things that aren't as though they are, charismatic things? I would love to visit Bro. Tatums church on occasion, but Its an hour drive, and I doubt I will make it a regular thing!

Yes our friendship will surpass these obstacles! You know I'm always here for you and I expect the same from you!