Initial evidence

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Luke 22:25–27 Matthew 20:25–28

He said to them, the kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them, and those in authority over them are called benefactors. But not so with you. Rather, let the greatest among you become as the youngest, and the leader as one who serves. For who is the greater, one who reclines at table or one who serves? Is it not the one who reclines at table? But I am among you as the one who serves.

The New Testament example of leadership didn't show a structure of anyone in the apostles as being the chief speaker. In Acts 15 they all gathered to discuss what had happened amongst the Gentiles. It isn't a totem pole of leadership, but a body, as in eyes, nose, mouth, hands, feet. All connected together. Anytime a portion of the body is cut off and cast away, is when that one member comes against the body. The hand saying to the foot, that it no longer needs to be part of the body. We only have One Head, that head is Jesus Christ. Men (all men) are over their own family. They are the leadership of their wife and children. They are the head of their home. The eldership works with the men as a functioning body. Ministers cannot vicariously control another man's family through the man of that family.

In the same way ministers cannot control Jesus' family as if they were Jesus Himself. We aren't Jesus, and therefore we don't lord over GOD'S heritage

For many (most) people there is no practical application other than isolation then.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Amanah

For many (most) people there is no practical application other than isolation then.

Could you explain the above further? Isolation as in how?

[Evang.Benincasa]

The model of what we see frequently is one individual pontificating to a large crowd. Which there is a precedence for this as Jesus, and Paul would address large crowds. But also we see where in a church family gathering to learn what was addressed to the large crowd. The details was then offered to them in a Q&A. While back one of my brothers were visiting from another state in the U.S. I offered him the pulpit. He preached a message. Then before he climbed down, I offered the church family to question him on what he taught. He was shocked. Later he told me he wasn’t expecting that. I acknowledge his surprise, and told him the only way they learned in the Bible paradigm is through Q&A. “Some” ministers and PROPHETS don’t like to be put on the spot in front of the group. While on some issues we are to take things on a one on one in private. When dealing with offenses. Yet, we are admonished if an elder refuses council we are to take it to the front of the larger body. Where we rebuke before all so all ( the elders ) will have respect for their office. People see church leadership as Apostles, Bishops, as presidents, kings. Pastors in the same role. Yet, the Bible doesn’t have that model for Jesus’ church family. Apostolic brothers and sisters have respect for the office of leadership. But, if the preacher doesn’t have respect for that office, they aren’t coming against that office. They are coming against the brother holding a title he is misusing. Because he is doing a lousy job. If you desire the office you desire a good thing. But understand you are point man with other point men who get shot at first. The greater condemnation. It’s not about the money, and loving the money creates evil in the heart. It must be about allowing Jesus to run the church family. A family which you are just a brother, not a mother, and certainly NOT a Father.

[Amanah]

Just as your minister friend was shocked, the model you've described is uncommon. So, you're not likely to find a community of believers who fit that model.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Just as your minister friend was shocked, I think it's uncommon to find a community of believers who are not in some sort of organizational structure other than what you described.

Jesus wasn’t kidding when He mentioned a narrow road leading to a small door.
Jesus then caps everything off with very few will find it. That’s because we have to be listening for His voice. He will never leave us or abandon us. When He sees the wolf coming He stands and fights. While the hireling (Αντίχριστος) flees and leaves the sheep to be murdered. Many different denominations searched to find the correct Biblical model of ecclesiastical leadership. Only to build structures which split and divide. The Apostolic Pentecostal movement started in homes, house boats, tents, and brush arbors. Prayer infilling of the Holy Ghost, seeking for the Holy Ghost to lead to fellowship. Waiting to see the leading of the Holy Ghost where everyone steps out of His way. Yet, fear is deadly. It causes men to do things in their carnal flesh to preserve a position. We see this in real time. A “prophet” climbing an ecclesiastical ladder to Pentecostal Glory. Because as a child it was the guy in the pulpit who held everyone’s adoration. A sword that is razor sharp cutting both ways. Once you compromise your morals under Jesus name in leadership. You are sunk like the Titanic. Be ye not many teachers, for you will receive the greater condemnation.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Just as your minister friend was shocked, the model you've described is uncommon. So, you're not likely to find a community of believers who fit that model.

Noah had a hard time finding a community of like minded believers too. But, I think you may be surprised at how many people there are who are genuinely looking for real apostolic community. Of course, they always have been the minority in the general population. But that doesn't mean they aren't out there.

I would never leave an assembly unless it was absolutely clear that you cannot continue there and still be faithful to God in all things. Sometimes things take time, and you may not be aware of the impact you are having on the people around you for good and for God. Everybody is learning, and at different points in their walk. Our job as God's people is to help everyone we meet to go further with God. Regardless of where they are currently at (assuming they have interest in moving forward). But we cannot expect everyone we meet to just stop, drop, and roll and "get up to (our) speed". Because that isn't practical or realistic, and also because we aren't always up to God's speed anyway. We all are learning and trying to move forward. Patience is a virtue, and God is long-suffering. We should be too.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Could you explain the above further? Isolation as in how?

I’m glad I’m not the only one who found that to be an odd response.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Noah had a hard time finding a community of like minded believers too. But, I think you may be surprised at how many people there are who are genuinely looking for real apostolic community. Of course, they always have been the minority in the general population. But that doesn't mean they aren't out there.

I would never leave an assembly unless it was absolutely clear that you cannot continue there and still be faithful to God in all things. Sometimes things take time, and you may not be aware of the impact you are having on the people around you for good and for God. Everybody is learning, and at different points in their walk. Our job as God's people is to help everyone we meet to go further with God. Regardless of where they are currently at (assuming they have interest in moving forward). But we cannot expect everyone we meet to just stop, drop, and roll and "get up to (our) speed". Because that isn't practical or realistic, and also because we aren't always up to God's speed anyway. We all are learning and trying to move forward. Patience is a virtue, and God is long-suffering. We should be too.

100%

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

I’m glad I’m not the only one who found that to be an odd response.

Not odd, but I needed our sister to clarify.
Isolated is the middle name of the Apostolic Pentecostal movement. Hence the reason why Apostolic seek the approval from mainstream Churchanity.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Not odd, but I needed our sister to clarify.
Isolated is the middle name of the Apostolic Pentecostal movement. Hence the reason why Apostolic seek the approval from mainstream Churchanity.

Not saying that Amanah is looking for approval from the greater whole of Churchdom. But, for brethren of like precious faith.