Murder-Suicide...Does God Ever Excuse Certain Sins?

[JN Anderson]

This is a touchy subject so I am not trying to be pushy. This is the last time I'll post on the subject in fact. The scriptures are not silent as some suggest, nor are the principles here confused. Human life is sacred, since we are created in God’s image (Gen. 1:27). There are various reasons. The body’s sacredness 1 Corinthians 6:19; Prohibition against murder Exodus 20:13; and faith's expectancy 2 Timothy 4:6–8, 18. Suicide violates the essential of salvation--faith in God. God has already revealed to us (Exodus 20) that murder is indeed a sin. Suicide involves murder of self. Unless the suicide is a failure the individual cannot repent, therefore they die with transgressions still accountable to them.

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by Sabellius

I was considering the potentiality of murder being involved. I thought there was still some speculation. Sorry if there was not.

I suppose it's possible but considering his statements to others about his own failing health, I read into that statement that his actions were out of concern, not malice, toward his wife and himself.

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by Berkeley

I won't go into my own personal story, but I will say, depression can get very bad. Sometimes people have manic depression and don't know it! (bipolar)
"Normal" people can tell you to "get over it" or "things will get better" but if you've never dealt with it, you really don't know how bad things can get.

I also want to state that there are more and more elderly being treated with antidepressants than ever. It used to be thought that the depression they suffered from was due to old age and such, but it's more than that.

Think of how depressed you might be if you were put into a facility that is not your home where you are subjected to people coming into your room whether you want them to or not, you can't have certain items due to lack of space or a safety issue, you eat when they tell you to eat and what they tell you to eat, bring you pills constantly, tell you when to potty and go to bed......and that's just a small piece of the life of someone who is no longer able to care for themselves.

Knowing what I know, I can easily see how someone would take the life of someone they love, knowing they wouldn't want to live that way...and take their own life due to failing health and knowing what they will have to face if they continue living.

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by Sabellius

This is a touchy subject so I am not trying to be pushy. This is the last time I'll post on the subject in fact. The scriptures are not silent as some suggest, nor are the principles here confused. Human life is sacred, since we are created in God’s image (Gen. 1:27). There are various reasons. The body’s sacredness 1 Corinthians 6:19; Prohibition against murder Exodus 20:13; and faith's expectancy 2 Timothy 4:6–8, 18. Suicide violates the essential of salvation--faith in God. God has already revealed to us (Exodus 20) that murder is indeed a sin. Suicide involves murder of self. Unless the suicide is a failure the individual cannot repent, therefore they die with transgressions still accountable to them.

This thread isn't about suicide at all, but the intent of the heart that only God sees. There is no right or wrong opinions in this thread because the fact is, we really just don't know. Only God does.....but I still like stating my opinion and reading the opinions of others.

Only God is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
That being said, I have a hard time believing that God would forgive murder that was unrepented of. Just as the life of the unborn has been depreciated in man's eyes, now we see that the same arguments, so to speak are being used in favor of ending life at the other end. Yes, people have pain. Yes, events happen in a person's life that are completely unbearable at times. Yet, does that give us the right to end life? whether it be that of our own or someone else. Arent' we putting ourselves above God when we do that? Just my opinion. I know what the elderly go thru, I worked with them for over 25 years and I could tell you stories. It wasn't just the elderly that I worked for, it was all ages, when I worked for the local VNA. I remember a client I had, who had MS. He was diagnosed only 6 months after he and his wife were married. I took care of him when he had his mind but not one muscle in his body worked. We had to do everything for him. His wife came in one day and told him one of his friends had committed suicide. I will never forget what he said. Now, in order for him to talk to us we had to go thru the alphabet one letter at a time and he would blink his eyes when we got to the right one. As you can imagine it took a long time for him to say anything. So, after at least 45 minutes, his wife finally got what he was trying to say. It was this. "Why did he go and do that?, life isn't so bad". I never forgot this. A person in his condition stating that.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

This thread isn't about suicide at all, but the intent of the heart that only God sees. There is no right or wrong opinions in this thread because the fact is, we really just don't know. Only God does.....but I still like stating my opinion and reading the opinions of others.

I think there is much truth in what you are saying, however the culture cannot be trusted with any freedom in this area as far as the law goes.

I personally have no concern for this couple's future, they are in the hands of a loving Heavenly father. Of course, I disagree with the traditional view that after a handicapped life by a sin infested earth God will add insult to injury and burn folks endlessly for billions of years. Rather His fire is the refiner's fire that will purge and burn all chaff and dross and finally reconcile folks to their Creator. He's an awesome God.

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by MrsBOOMM

Only God is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
That being said, I have a hard time believing that God would forgive murder that was unrepented of. Just as the life of the unborn has been depreciated in man's eyes, now we see that the same arguments, so to speak are being used in favor of ending life at the other end. Yes, people have pain. Yes, events happen in a person's life that are completely unbearable at times. Yet, does that give us the right to end life? whether it be that of our own or someone else. Arent' we putting ourselves above God when we do that? Just my opinion. I know what the elderly go thru, I worked with them for over 25 years and I could tell you stories. It wasn't just the elderly that I worked for, it was all ages, when I worked for the local VNA. I remember a client I had, who had MS. He was diagnosed only 6 months after he and his wife were married. I took care of him when he had his mind but not one muscle in his body worked. We had to do everything for him. His wife came in one day and told him one of his friends had committed suicide. I will never forget what he said. Now, in order for him to talk to us we had to go thru the alphabet one letter at a time and he would blink his eyes when we got to the right one. As you can imagine it took a long time for him to say anything. So, after at least 45 minutes, his wife finally got what he was trying to say. It was this. "Why did he go and do that?, life isn't so bad". I never forgot this. A person in his condition stating that.

It's wonderful when someone in that condition can have the outlook on life. Sadly, it isn't often that someone has that attitude about their situation.

I, too, once took care of a client with MS. I was amazed that she could joke about her condition and things her body did on it's own. She was always hopeful for a cure and was involved in the MS community. It took her life two years ago last month at the age of 46.

I'm not that kind of person. I've been to a place where I was so sick and thought I would never get better. I didn't like being there and so out of control. I hope I'm never in that position again.

There was a time when I wanted to die. No, I wasn't suicidal, but I wanted to die. I understand better now......those who feel that way. The understanding that I have prevents me from judging them in the same manner I might judge someone who killed themselves because their girlfriend broke off the relationship, or because they lost their job.

As for putting ourselves above God...well, that can be said for any decision we make where a different outcome is had that God didn't do Himself, IMO. God said for us not to kill, yet there are times that we can kill and the killing is justified, both in His mind and in the mind of the law.

Since God knows our intentions in a way that men cannot, this is why I wonder if God somehow excuses scenarios like the one above. No, I'm not for the euthanistic murders of our elderly..just wanted to make that clear.

Perhaps if someone like you or I were there to help them and talk to them, things might have been different. I don't know.

[Ron]

My dad had a brain disease and he killed himself almost 39 yrs ago when I was just 4.
My older sister is in a nearby nursing home with the same disease.

I am glad I am not God, but from what I have read, one who does such is not saved.

I however wouldn't be hurt if I was wrong in this matter.

God in his Sovereignty can do whatsover he pleases.

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by crakjak

I think there is much truth in what you are saying, however the culture cannot be trusted with any freedom in this area as far as the law goes.

I personally have no concern for this couple's future, they are in the hands of a loving Heavenly father. Of course, I disagree with the traditional view that after a handicapped life by a sin infested earth God will add insult to injury and burn folks endlessly for billions of years. Rather His fire is the refiner's fire that will purge and burn all chaff and dross and finally reconcile folks to their Creator. He's an awesome God.

I totally agree with you.

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by Ron

My dad had a brain disease and he killed himself almost 39 yrs ago when I was just 4.
My older sister is in a nearby nursing home with the same disease.

I am glad I am not God, but from what I have read, one who does such is not saved.

I however wouldn't be hurt if I was wrong in this matter.

God in his Sovereignty can do whatsover he pleases.

That is so sad, Ron. Can I ask what the disease is called?