I think it's fairly easy to explain why a lot of the laws (not talking about the moral law of course) written in the OT are no longer applicable today.
What is the "fairly easy" guideline? Define the line where the scimitar dividing relevant from irrelevant lands. Please.
__________________
Engineering solutions for theological problems.
Despite today's rising cost of living, it remains popular.
"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried." - Sir Winston Churchill
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Sir Winston Churchill
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security." - Benjamin Franklin
Why do some attempt to discount the OT in deciding what is and isn't appropriate behavior for Christians living by grace?
How is such a teaching justified? The spiritual principles in the OT and in the law are still valid, as God does not change.
How does one persuade such a thinker of the validity of OT principles, or even of simple common sense things that are only hinted at in the bible, if they react by running straight to ground and begin to ask things such as whether you wear blended fiber clothing?
What is the arbiter of things disallowed in the OT now allowed, and things allowed in the OT now disallowed?
How does a sincere and moderate seeker of truth explain the relevance of the OT to the all-or-nothing crowd?
Carl
The first thing that ought to be understood Brother Carl is the divine nature of God.He is the same yesterday,today and forever.If He hated it in the OT
I promise He still hates it today.The soft effeminate Jesus also turned over tables in the temple and bore our iniquities and the bible says He opened not his mouth.He also has some real hard things to say in the NT that it takes the Holy Ghost to obey.It was easy in the OT because no flesh could please God but in the NT we have the greater miricle of the Holy Ghost living inside of us and to whom much is given much is required.We now have to listen to the Rabbi within and its a much greater judgement that begins at the house of God.
Why do some attempt to discount the OT in deciding what is and isn't appropriate behavior for Christians living by grace?
How is such a teaching justified? The spiritual principles in the OT and in the law are still valid, as God does not change.
How does one persuade such a thinker of the validity of OT principles, or even of simple common sense things that are only hinted at in the bible, if they react by running straight to ground and begin to ask things such as whether you wear blended fiber clothing?
What is the arbiter of things disallowed in the OT now allowed, and things allowed in the OT now disallowed?
How does a sincere and moderate seeker of truth explain the relevance of the OT to the all-or-nothing crowd?
Carl
Carl,
I believe Acts chapter fifteen deals with this very question very clearly, this discourse is in response to Jewish believers trying to force the Gentile believers to comply with all the OT:
24 “We understand that some men from here have troubled you and upset you with their teaching, but we did not send them! 25 So we decided, having come to complete agreement, to send you official representatives, along with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We are sending Judas and Silas to confirm what we have decided concerning your question.
28 “For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay no greater burden on you than these few requirements: 29 You must abstain from eating food offered to idols, from consuming blood or the meat of strangled animals, and from sexual immorality. If you do this, you will do well. Farewell. (NLT)
Would to God that current day ministry to be so clear and so succinct.
__________________ For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God. (Romans 14:11- NASB)
I believe Acts chapter fifteen deals with this very question very clearly, this discourse is in response to Jewish believers trying to force the Gentile believers to comply with all the OT:
24 “We understand that some men from here have troubled you and upset you with their teaching, but we did not send them! 25 So we decided, having come to complete agreement, to send you official representatives, along with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We are sending Judas and Silas to confirm what we have decided concerning your question.
28 “For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay no greater burden on you than these few requirements: 29 You must abstain from eating food offered to idols, from consuming blood or the meat of strangled animals, and from sexual immorality. If you do this, you will do well. Farewell. (NLT)
Would to God that current day ministry to be so clear and so succinct.
Well this deals with the minutia of mosaic law.
NT-only types not only wish to dispense with mosaic law, but with the principles and nature of God from the OT. Are we still to honor our father and mother? That's OT. Is a lazy man still to reap sparingly, and a fool to reap the whirlwind? That's OT.
See, there is also the natural law that is consistent between dispensations. The principles of physics and chemistry remain the same. Fire is still hot and floods still drown people. People that overeat and don't exercise become fat. People still reap what they sow, in every natural and spiritual context.
A dog still returns to his vomit.
A drunkard redeemed is still tempted by his wine.
God is still willing for the enemies of His nation to be slain, although he gives all men space to repent and find grace.
__________________
Engineering solutions for theological problems.
Despite today's rising cost of living, it remains popular.
"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried." - Sir Winston Churchill
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Sir Winston Churchill
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security." - Benjamin Franklin
NT-only types not only wish to dispense with mosaic law, but with the principles and nature of God from the OT. Are we still to honor our father and mother? That's OT. Is a lazy man still to reap sparingly, and a fool to reap the whirlwind? That's OT.
See, there is also the natural law that is consistent between dispensations. The principles of physics and chemistry remain the same. Fire is still hot and floods still drown people. People that overeat and don't exercise become fat. People still reap what they sow, in every natural and spiritual context.
God is still willing for the enemies of His nation to be slain.
I believe the NT picks up most of the principles that you refer to, however I have no problem using the OT as the NT directs. That would be as examples of how God deals with mankind.
We are required to "rightly divide" the word of truth, the letter kills the Spirit makes alive.
__________________ For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God. (Romans 14:11- NASB)
Why do some attempt to discount the OT in deciding what is and isn't appropriate behavior for Christians living by grace?
How is such a teaching justified? The spiritual principles in the OT and in the law are still valid, as God does not change.
How does one persuade such a thinker of the validity of OT principles, or even of simple common sense things that are only hinted at in the bible, if they react by running straight to ground and begin to ask things such as whether you wear blended fiber clothing?
What is the arbiter of things disallowed in the OT now allowed, and things allowed in the OT now disallowed?
How does a sincere and moderate seeker of truth explain the relevance of the OT to the all-or-nothing crowd?
Carl
I believe that the OT is relevant. However, the Spirit of Jesus is often much easier to swallow than some things in the OT. An adulteress being pardoned with love rather than stoned and things like that. I much prefer mercy to judgment.
God has a much bigger picture, physical life in this world is not as important to Him as it is to mankind, He is working His ultimate purpose.
Yes, that is apparently so, I have to agree. So, then what do we mean when we say things like "God is merciful" or "God is good"? We talk about God's everlasting mercy, but if it would not be possible (since we excuse literally anything he does) to disprove that assertion if it were actually false, then it is utterly meaningless. What could God possibly do to show that he actually isn't merciful or good (just supposing that were the case)? Kill someone for disobeying? Oops. It's been done. Even in the new covenant. Kill innocent children? Done. Command his followers to rape women, or take young virgins as slaves after killing their families, or slash pregnant women? Done.
If I made up a story of God performing some outrageous atrocity, you'd want my head on a platter. (OK, now I'm addressing the plural "you", or hypothetical "you", not necessarily you, CJ!) But you'd better look it up first to see if it just may be in the Bible. It might be hard to tell it apart from the real thing.
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Yes, that is apparently so, I have to agree. So, then what do we mean when we say things like "God is merciful" or "God is good"? We talk about God's everlasting mercy, but if it would not be possible (since we excuse literally anything he does) to disprove that assertion if it were actually false, then it is utterly meaningless. What could God possibly do to show that he actually isn't merciful or good (just supposing that were the case)? Kill someone for disobeying? Oops. It's been done. Even in the new covenant. Kill innocent children? Done. Command his followers to rape women, or take young virgins as slaves after killing their families, or slash pregnant women? Done.
If I made up a story of God performing some outrageous atrocity, you'd want my head on a platter. (OK, now I'm addressing the plural "you", or hypothetical "you", not necessarily you, CJ!) But you'd better look it up first to see if it just may be in the Bible. It might be hard to tell it apart from the real thing.
I have a seriously hard time swallowing some of that OT stuff. Sometimes I wonder just how much God had to do with some of that stuff. It seems often diametrically opposed to the Spirit of Jesus when He came. I think that is why people love the NT.
I have a seriously hard time swallowing some of that OT stuff. Sometimes I wonder just how much God had to do with some of that stuff. It seems often diametrically opposed to the Spirit of Jesus when He came. I think that is why people love the NT.
Exactly!
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
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