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  #11  
Old 08-04-2018, 08:40 PM
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jediwill83 jediwill83 is offline
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Re: If You Sin Are You Lost Until You Repent?

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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
Temptation comes from our own desires, which entice us and calls us away. These desires give birth to sinful actions. And when sin is allowed to mature, it gives birth to death James 1:15. So, let's put that into rewind, For the kind of sorrow God wants us to experience leads us away from sinful action and results in salvation. There's no regret for that kind of sorrow. But worldly sorrow, which lacks repentance, results in spiritual death 2 Corinthians 7:10. We are told by the scripture that we are to grow into mature followers of Christ. Willful sin is practicing sin. 1st John 3:1 See how very much our Father loves us, for he calls us his children, and that is what we are! But the people who belong to this world don't recognize that we are God's children because they don't know him. Jesus replied, "Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and yet you still don't know who I am? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father! So why are you asking me to show him to you? John 14:9. Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect Matthew 5:48.

So, we are to be mature in Christ, and deviating from that doesn't happen overnight. The "Christian" who comes home one night and is confronted by his wife, who tells him that she found out about his affair. Didn't lose his position as husband, father, and defender of the faith just one morning. It is a weed that springs up and chokes away the spiritual life Matthew 13:4-8.

1 John 3:3 tells us that we need to do the heavy lifting, to purify ourselves to be as pure as Jesus Christ. This is our journey to be a good soldier in the army of the Lord 2 Timothy 2:1-8. Just as a soldier we are not to be entangled mixed up with the world which is outside of recognizing Jesus Christ. Because by being entangled we lose our position. This isn't about repent, go back repent, go back. If you were on any secular job you would be fired. We all understand that a job has a period were we learn the job, but once we have been in it for a while we should be able to do it without the administration watching us. Our mistakes when we came in aren't as great as they were when we first took the job. Yet if we are practicing sin willfully, we are under a different father, and no longer part of the Body of Christ 1 John 3:8, John 8:44-45. We may come to ourselves as we brings the pig slop to our mouths, but that also might not come overnight. A battleship is pretty big, and the power it takes to turn it around takes a lot. A tractor trailer takes a lot to stop it, Because of its weight and speed. Therefore we should walk in the light, so we can see where we are going. Following a sighted guide who is Jesus Christ, and surrounding ourselves with seasoned mature brethren who won't always tell us that we are right, especially when we are wrong. Because the wounds of a friend are faithful Proverbs 27:6.

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  #12  
Old 08-04-2018, 08:42 PM
Costeon Costeon is offline
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Re: If You Sin Are You Lost Until You Repent?

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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
[/B]

There is where grace comes in and covers us as we LEARN. Not as we continue WILLFULLY in sin Psalm 19:13, Romans 6:1-2.
Do you mean that mature believers are no longer learners in need of grace because they always conquer sin?

What would an "unwillful" sin be?
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  #13  
Old 08-04-2018, 08:53 PM
Costeon Costeon is offline
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Re: If You Sin Are You Lost Until You Repent?

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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
What is the difference of "sinned" and "sinning"

Which is which?
Sinned is what we have done, and sinning is what we will always be liable to till Jesus comes again. At least that is what I would understand the Lord's Prayer to imply with the Lord telling us to pray "forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors."

I'm talking about a sincere believer who tries to live by the power of the Spirit but who nevertheless fails to do so all the time, not the person who really doesn't care about God's Word and openly disregards it with no real intention or desire to change.
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  #14  
Old 08-04-2018, 08:55 PM
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Amanah Amanah is offline
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Re: If You Sin Are You Lost Until You Repent?

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Originally Posted by Costeon View Post
By "unrepentant" do you simply mean that period of time from a sin (whatever it might be) till it is confessed to God, or do you mean someone who is flagrantly sinning with no real concern for God's Word? I understand you to mean the former but I wanted to clarify.

It seems you're saying that God will not allow a sincere Christian who has sinned to die before they have had a chance to repent--in other words, God would not actually allow a sincere Christian to face the eternal consequence of having sinned or stumbled. Is this what you're saying?
I think God is long suffering and will try to draw us back to Him. I believe God gives people 2nd and 3rd chances.

I have a relative who walked closely with God for 20 years, but now she rarely comes to church, her priorities are worldly entertainment and fun. But God is still working on her, drawing her. When she does come to church she prays and feels the presence of God. I know that God has not given up on her and is drawing her back to himself.

How many of us know backsliders that we are praying that God will convict them and bring them home, like the parable of the lost sheep, coin, son

Luke 15
3 And he spake this parable unto them, saying,
4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?
5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.
6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.
7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.
8 Either what woman having ten pieces of silver, if she lose one piece, doth not light a candle, and sweep the house, and seek diligently till she find it?
9 And when she hath found it, she calleth her friends and her neighbours together, saying, Rejoice with me; for I have found the piece which I had lost.
10 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.
11 And he said, A certain man had two sons:
12 And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.
13 And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.
14 And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want.
15 And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.
16 And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him.
17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
23 And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
25 Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing.
26 And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant.
27 And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound.
28 And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and intreated him.
29 And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends:
30 But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.
31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.
32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

*************

I also think that if a Christian makes a mistake, God will convict them and draw them to repentance if they have a heart for God.
David was a man after God's heart. when he fell into sin, God sent Nathan the prophet to convict David to repentance.
The price he paid for his sin was horrible, Tamar raped, Amnon murdered, Absalom betraying him and killed, on and on the sorrow went.

*************

There also comes a time when people cant find the place of repentance, like Essau or Judas, and they lose out with God.

You can't play with God. If you mess up and can't find a place of repentance, you will face destruction.

ok, now the theologians/elders can sort this out.

Last edited by Amanah; 08-04-2018 at 09:05 PM.
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  #15  
Old 08-04-2018, 09:00 PM
Costeon Costeon is offline
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Re: If You Sin Are You Lost Until You Repent?

If believers are lost the moment they sin, then it seems that our salvation is based on our ability to obey and not on God's grace. As long as I obey, then apparently I'm saved, but the moment I falter, I'm lost.

I'm saved as long as I perfectly obey. Is this message of the Gospel?

Again, I'm talking about the person seeking to live for God, not the one blatantly ignoring the Word of God.
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  #16  
Old 08-04-2018, 09:09 PM
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Amanah Amanah is offline
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Re: If You Sin Are You Lost Until You Repent?

if you mess up and don't repent you are lost

2 Timothy 2 King James Version (KJV)

19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
King James Version (KJV)
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  #17  
Old 08-04-2018, 09:11 PM
Costeon Costeon is offline
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Re: If You Sin Are You Lost Until You Repent?

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Originally Posted by Amanah View Post
I think God is long suffering and will try to draw us back to Him. I believe God gives people 2nd and 3rd chances.
Thank God for his mercy! How I've needed it!

Do you think that the moment someone fails in any way that is not God's will, and so would be in need of one of these 2nd or 3rd chances, would be lost should they die before being able to confess that sin to God?

Quote:
I have a relative who walked closely with God for 20 years, but now she rarely comes to church, her priorities are worldly entertainment and fun. But God is still working on her, drawing her. When she does come to church she prays and feels the presence of God. I know that God has not given up on her and is drawing her back to himself.
May the Lord continue to have mercy on her and may she return to him!

Quote:
How many of us know backsliders that we are praying that God will convict them and bring them home, like the parable of the lost sheep, coin, son
I know I do and am.
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  #18  
Old 08-04-2018, 09:15 PM
Costeon Costeon is offline
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Re: If You Sin Are You Lost Until You Repent?

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Originally Posted by Amanah View Post
if you mess up and don't repent you are lost

2 Timothy 2 King James Version (KJV)

19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
King James Version (KJV)
And so we are saved while we perfectly obey the will of God. We are lost the moment we fail and remain so until we ask for forgiveness. We can be justified one moment, but unjustified another moment, then justified again, etc. Does this accurately express what you mean?
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  #19  
Old 08-04-2018, 09:18 PM
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Amanah Amanah is offline
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Re: If You Sin Are You Lost Until You Repent?

It ain't over till the fat lady sings
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  #20  
Old 08-04-2018, 09:27 PM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: If You Sin Are You Lost Until You Repent?

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Originally Posted by Costeon View Post
Sinned is what we have done, and sinning is what we will always be liable to till Jesus comes again. At least that is what I would understand the Lord's Prayer to imply with the Lord telling us to pray "forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors."

I'm talking about a sincere believer who tries to live by the power of the Spirit but who nevertheless fails to do so all the time, not the person who really doesn't care about God's Word and openly disregards it with no real intention or desire to change.
I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you are saying here. Sincere believer sounds as much of a failure at the job as someone who really doesn't care about God's Word and openly disregards it with no real intention or desire to change. Understand you say that the sincere believer fails all the time. So, the homosexual is always struggling under Jesus name and loses the fight occasionally? The pathological liar can only struggle under Jesus name. From what it sounds like, to live by the power of the Spirit is something they have to WORK at? Does a sincere believer only tries to live by the power of the Spirit? So, actually they are saved by struggling and works? So, what's the change?
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