The Doctrine of Predestination

[Esaias]

Another old post:

Isaiah 29

1 Woe to Ariel, to Ariel, the city where David dwelt! add ye year to year; let them kill sacrifices.

2 Yet I will distress Ariel, and there shall be heaviness and sorrow: and it shall be unto me as Ariel.

3 And I will camp against thee round about, and will lay siege against thee with a mount, and I will raise forts against thee.

4 And thou shalt be brought down, and shalt speak out of the ground, and thy speech shall be low out of the dust, and thy voice shall be, as of one that hath a familiar spirit, out of the ground, and thy speech shall whisper out of the dust.

5 Moreover the multitude of thy strangers shall be like small dust, and the multitude of the terrible ones shall be as chaff that passeth away: yea, it shall be at an instant suddenly.

6 Thou shalt be visited of the LORD of hosts with thunder, and with earthquake, and great noise, with storm and tempest, and the flame of devouring fire.

7 And the multitude of all the nations that fight against Ariel, even all that fight against her and her munition, and that distress her, shall be as a dream of a night vision.

8 It shall even be as when an hungry man dreameth, and, behold, he eateth; but he awaketh, and his soul is empty: or as when a thirsty man dreameth, and, behold, he drinketh; but he awaketh, and, behold, he is faint, and his soul hath appetite: so shall the multitude of all the nations be, that fight against mount Zion.

9 Stay yourselves, and wonder; cry ye out, and cry: they are drunken, but not with wine; they stagger, but not with strong drink.

10 For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.

11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:

12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.

13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.

15 Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the LORD, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us?

16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?

17 Is it not yet a very little while, and Lebanon shall be turned into a fruitful field, and the fruitful field shall be esteemed as a forest?

18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

19 The meek also shall increase their joy in the LORD, and the poor among men shall rejoice in the Holy One of Israel.

20 For the terrible one is brought to nought, and the scorner is consumed, and all that watch for iniquity are cut off:

21 That make a man an offender for a word, and lay a snare for him that reproveth in the gate, and turn aside the just for a thing of nought.

22 Therefore thus saith the LORD, who redeemed Abraham, concerning the house of Jacob, Jacob shall not now be ashamed, neither shall his face now wax pale.

23 But when he seeth his children, the work of mine hands, in the midst of him, they shall sanctify my name, and sanctify the Holy One of Jacob, and shall fear the God of Israel.

24 They also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding, and they that murmured shall learn doctrine.

Isaiah is speaking of judgement upon Jerusalem for their rejection of truth and true piety. He also says that concerning Jacob, ie Israel, that the nation would glorify God and sanctify the name of God and sanctify the Holy One of Jacob (ie Christ). This is speaking of Israel's conversion to the new covenant, which Paul is directly addressing. Isaiah says in verse 16 that Israel's rejection of God and introduction of false religion would not overthrow the plans of God for that nation, because the nation is identified by the prophet as 'clay' and God as the 'potter'. Just as the potter takes clay and shapes into the vessel he desires, God will take Israel and shape it into the nation He desires. Paul returns to this very topic a little later on, and so shall I, but in my next post let's look at the other reference Paul is making.

[Esaias]

and again:

The other reference Paul is making, with his talk of potter and clay, is in Jeremiah 18.

1 The word which came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying,

2 Arise, and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words.

3 Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels.

4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

5 Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying,

6 O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.

7 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;

8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.

9 And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it;

10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.

God hear identifies Israel as clay in His hands, to make of it as He chooses. He further identifies the metaphor of potter and clay in reference to His establishing nations, and overthrowing nations. Again, the very same subject matter as that found in Isaiah's reference. And again, the very same subject that Paul was speaking of in Romans 9, where the subject is the nation Israel and it's role in God's divine, prophetic plan.

This is not about individual salvation. This is not God's Word teaching that God creates the sinners, to sin, in order to show off His goodness! It is clearly teaching that God raises nations to do His will, to accomplish His purposes in this world.

Further, notice verse 4 - And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it. The idea is that God formed the nation Israel, but it 'was marred'. IE Israel backslid and rebelled and became a 'marred vessel' or a 'vessel of dishonour'. But notice that God reshapes the clay into a proper, approved vessel.

This is not a picture of an individual sinner, made that way by some eternal decree of God, as the Calvinists maintain. If it were a picture of the individual person, then it would still disprove the notion that God creates individuals for the purpose of destroying them. For the original clay was being formed for a good purpose, but something happened that displeased the potter. And so the potter reforms that same clay lump into a proper fitting vessel.

In any event, this is about nations, particularly ISRAEL, and its place in the prophetic picture in regards to Messiah.

[Esaias]

And yet another:

Verse 23 of Romans 9 says this :

And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

The vessels of mercy are said to have been 'afore prepared unto glory'. Who are those vessels of mercy? The answer to that will answer the question of what Paul means when he says they were 'afore prepared unto glory.'

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Ah, so the vessels of mercy are the Christians, the ones whom God has called, not of the Jews only but also of the Gentiles.

Remember, Paul is speaking in this chapter about the covenant nation, God's choosing of that covenant nation by His sovereign will, and the fact that the covenant nation (Israel) seems to have failed to receive those promises, in that the covenant nation had apprently rejected Messiah. (Again, go back to the first several verses of the chapter.)

But Paul says that God has power to raise up (and destroy or cast down) nations as He chooses. God raised up Israel, and it seemed God has 'cast them down' as evidenced by the fact they had corporately rejected Christ. Now, many Gentiles had received Christ. So God appeared to have dropped the chosen nation in favour of another. But Paul teaches God does what He wills, for His purposes, with nations.

Paul also identifies the fact that the vessels of mercy represent the church composed of both Jews and Gentiles.

The word 'Gentiles' is 'ethnoi', from which we get the word 'ethnic' from. It means literally 'nations'. It is a generic term for nations, that came to distinguish the nations not in covenant with God from the nation that was in Covenant with God.

Thus, in the new testament scriptures, 'gentiles' often meant non-Jews.

The Jews of course, being circumcised, and keeping the covenant of God, considered the uncircumcised 'nations' as beyond the pale of God's blessings in Messiah. They considered their status as 'God's nation' set in stone. Yet, the prophet John warned them not to think thus, saying God could if He wanted raise up a seed to Abraham (ie to inherit Abraham's blessings) from the rocks, if need be. Jesus did likewise.

And Paul's entire thesis in Romans from chapter 1 to now in chapter 9 has been that the Jews were not so secure in their position as God's people that they could reject Christ without consequence. Also, that the gentiles which believed in Messiah were made part of God's chosen nation, irregardless of whether or not they became 'Jews' by circumcision and adherance to the Old covenant.

Romasn 9 re-iterates the same theme, that the Jews who believed and the Gentiles who believed were being fashioned by God into a holy nation, joined together in Christ, with no difference in status between them.

Now, Paul had just identified the vessels of mercy as the Christians, both Jew and Gentile. He then makes an astounding claim - that this uniting of Jew and Gentile in Christ is a fulfillment of yet another prophecy, this time in Hosea. I'll get back to that later.

In any event, Paul himself concludes his teaching in Romans 9 with a clear statement as to what he is saying. If he is saying that God creates some people to be able to believe and be saved, and some people without that ability and thus they were created to be eternally damned, then now is Paul's time to say it clearly.

And so he says:

30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

Paul sums up romans 9 teaching as this: the nations which did not follow after righteousness, have in the end attained to it, whereas Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, did not attain to it. Ie, Israel did not attain to membership in the new covenant, whereas those heathen nations have. He is talking about nations - gentiles means nations, you must keep that in mind. He is talking about the national and international scope of the gospel, not about individual salvation.

And to drive this point home, he says this:

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

In otherwords, those who did not attain, Israel which did not attain, failed to attain to righteousness because they sought righteousness by the works of the law, and did not seek it by faith.

In other words, the vessels of dishonour, the vessels of wrath, are vessels of wrath because they did not seek to be a vessel of honour, by faith.

Paul himself thus explains his entire teaching here. He sums it up as saying that God's covenant has been extended to all, Jew or Gentile, who seek God and righteousness by faith, and all who seek it by works of the old covenant fail to attain and are rejected.

He did not summarize his teaching as 'God has eternally decreed who all the sinners would be and He made sure they all were going to hell before they were even born.'

[Esaias]

Hear what the Calvinist says:

From the Westminster Confession, chapter 3 -

III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels are predestinated unto everlasting life; and others foreordained to everlasting death.

IV. These angels and men, thus predestinated, and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed, and their number so certain and definite, that it cannot be either increased or diminished.

V. Those of mankind that are predestinated unto life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to His eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of His will, has chosen, in Christ, unto everlasting glory, out of His mere free grace and love, without any foresight of faith, or good works, or perseverance in either of them, or any other thing in the creature, as conditions, or causes moving Him thereunto; and all to the praise of His glorious grace.

VI. As God has appointed the elect unto glory, so has He, by the eternal and most free purpose of His will, foreordained all the means thereunto. Wherefore, they who are elected, being fallen in Adam, are redeemed by Christ, are effectually called unto faith in Christ by His Spirit working in due season, are justified, adopted, sanctified, and kept by His power, through faith, unto salvation. Neither are any other redeemed by Christ, effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and saved, but the elect only.

VII. The rest of mankind God was pleased, according to the unsearchable counsel of His own will, whereby He extends or withholds mercy, as He pleases, for the glory of His sovereign power over His creatures, to pass by; and to ordain them to dishonor and wrath for their sin, to the praise of His glorious justice.

If you affirm that God has predetermined who is to be saved and who is not to be saved, if you affirm that God calls only the elect, and that He does it by 'His Spirit working in due season', then you stand with the Calvinist. You affirm that which they affirm, indeed, you affirm the very thing that is the core, central, distinguishing tenet of Calvinism!

I believe many do not intend for that to happen. I believe many do not intend to be in the unenviable position of standing with the Calvinists, but standing with them you are, if you hold the things they uphold, and which are the distinguishing and peculiar doctrines that define them as a particular sect among Christendom.

But let us look at this Scripture passage again, a little more closely. Does it indeed say, what Calvin thinks it says?

First, let us pay attention to the fact that nowhere is 'eternal life' or 'eternal damnation' ever mentioned in the passage at all! I know it is hard to believe, when one has been busy standing with the Westminster creed against Paul for so long, but indeed look and see! It does not say that God has decreed some to eternal life and others to eternal damnation. It does not say that only certain persons can be saved, and those certain persons are chosen by God willy-nilly, and thus for untold numbers of people there is no hope possible in Christ, His cross, His death, or His resurrection... that for many millions of people there is no mercy of God to which they can flee for the salvation of their souls.

It simply does not say anything of the sort. Such horrible things are read into the text, not read from the text.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Hear what the Calvinist says:

From the Westminster Confession, chapter 3 -

III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels are predestinated unto everlasting life; and others foreordained to everlasting death.

IV. These angels and men, thus predestinated, and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed, and their number so certain and definite, that it cannot be either increased or diminished.

V. Those of mankind that are predestinated unto life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to His eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of His will, has chosen, in Christ, unto everlasting glory, out of His mere free grace and love, without any foresight of faith, or good works, or perseverance in either of them, or any other thing in the creature, as conditions, or causes moving Him thereunto; and all to the praise of His glorious grace.

VI. As God has appointed the elect unto glory, so has He, by the eternal and most free purpose of His will, foreordained all the means thereunto. Wherefore, they who are elected, being fallen in Adam, are redeemed by Christ, are effectually called unto faith in Christ by His Spirit working in due season, are justified, adopted, sanctified, and kept by His power, through faith, unto salvation. Neither are any other redeemed by Christ, effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and saved, but the elect only.

VII. The rest of mankind God was pleased, according to the unsearchable counsel of His own will, whereby He extends or withholds mercy, as He pleases, for the glory of His sovereign power over His creatures, to pass by; and to ordain them to dishonor and wrath for their sin, to the praise of His glorious justice.

If you affirm that God has predetermined who is to be saved and who is not to be saved, if you affirm that God calls only the elect, and that He does it by 'His Spirit working in due season', then you stand with the Calvinist. You affirm that which they affirm, indeed, you affirm the very thing that is the core, central, distinguishing tenet of Calvinism!

I believe many do not intend for that to happen. I believe many do not intend to be in the unenviable position of standing with the Calvinists, but standing with them you are, if you hold the things they uphold, and which are the distinguishing and peculiar doctrines that define them as a particular sect among Christendom.

But let us look at this Scripture passage again, a little more closely. Does it indeed say, what Calvin thinks it says?

First, let us pay attention to the fact that nowhere is 'eternal life' or 'eternal damnation' ever mentioned in the passage at all! I know it is hard to believe, when one has been busy standing with the Westminster creed against Paul for so long, but indeed look and see! It does not say that God has decreed some to eternal life and others to eternal damnation. It does not say that only certain persons can be saved, and those certain persons are chosen by God willy-nilly, and thus for untold numbers of people there is no hope possible in Christ, His cross, His death, or His resurrection... that for many millions of people there is no mercy of God to which they can flee for the salvation of their souls.

It simply does not say anything of the sort. Such horrible things are read into the text, not read from the text.

I don't know where the second point went, but I think this thread so far should be enough to show that the Bible doctrine of predestination has to do with Israel being predestined to enter the new covenant, and that all those in Christ are to receive the inheritance.

[houston]

I will read whatever I want into the text concerning this issue.

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by houston

I will read whatever I want into the text concerning this issue.

huh?

[Carl]

Thanks Esaias! A very comprehensive study on the subject.

[Esaias]

Glad it was a blessing to you guys!