Genesis - Who is our image?

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

I would believe that if the angels had anything to do with it, but they didn't.

The dust of the ground, however, did.

The angels need not have actually participated in the work of creating in order for God to say what He said. The dust didn't do anything to create man either and it is a pretty silly thing to say if you take your objection to the angels on the basis that they didn't have anything to do with creating and apply it to the dirt: "God said to the dirt, let us make man in our image." The dirt didn't "do" anything and, thus, did not assist God in creating man.

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by Chan

The angels need not have actually participated in the work of creating in order for God to say what He said. The dust didn't do anything to create man either and it is a pretty silly thing to say if you take your objection to the angels on the basis that they didn't have anything to do with creating and apply it to the dirt: "God said to the dirt, let us make man in our image." The dirt didn't "do" anything and, thus, did not assist God in creating man.

Chan, do you understand what 'personification' is? Have you ever talked to an inanimate object?

I think it's simple to understand that God was drawing in the dirt and made the statement, "Let us make man", and He did, using the dirt He spoke to.

It's no different than an artist looking at his tools and speaking to them about making a masterpiece. Sure, he's the artist, but without his tools he's nothing more than just a man.

God spoke to the dirt, yet He made man. Angels had nothing to do with it, but the dirt certainly did, cause without it, you would be made of cow dung instead, perhaps.

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

Chan, do you understand what 'personification' is? Have you ever talked to an inanimate object?

I have never, at least not intentionally, talked to an inanimate object.

I think it's simple to understand that God was drawing in the dirt and made the statement, "Let us make man", and He did, using the dirt He spoke to.

It's no different than an artist looking at his tools and speaking to them about making a masterpiece. Sure, he's the artist, but without his tools he's nothing more than just a man.

If I saw an artist talking to his tools I'd think he had a few screws loose. Are you suggesting that God is nothing without the dust of the ground?

God spoke to the dirt, yet He made man. Angels had nothing to do with it, but the dirt certainly did, cause without it, you would be made of cow dung instead, perhaps.

God did not speak to the dirt!!!!!

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by MrsMcD

Genesis 1:26
Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish…

Who is God referring to when he says our?

Genesis 3:22
And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good…

Who is God referring to when he says us?

Angels

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

I would believe that if the angels had anything to do with it, but they didn't.

The dust of the ground, however, did.

Angels were present though and angels might have also had a similiar nature to God being spirits themselves.

[MrsMcD]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Angels were present though and angels might have also had a similiar nature to God being spirits themselves.

This is a good point.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

God spoke to the dirt, yet He made man. Angels had nothing to do with it, but the dirt certainly did, cause without it, you would be made of cow dung instead, perhaps.

So the dirt helped God create? Why could not God speak to the angels in the same way you say he spoke to dirt?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by MrsMcD

This is a good point.

I am quoting an article by Jason Dulle

Directly following God's use of plural pronouns in verse twenty-six it is said that "God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him...." (Genesis 2:27 italics mine) Clearly it was one image in which man was created. He was not created in two or more images.

It appears that God was speaking to angels in these passages. The grammar of these verses support this view. The grammar of Genesis 1:26 is as follows: God (plural)2 said (third person masculine singular), Let us make (first person common plural) man (singular masculine noun) in our image ("image" is a first person common plural suffix), after our likeness ("likeness" is a feminine singular noun with a first person common plural suffix)."3 The plural pronouns "us" and "our" must be referring to someone other than God because the verb used in connection with "God" is singular. If God was speaking to Himself in a plural form, or performing self-talk as some say, the pronouns would also need to be singular to modify the verb. Because they are not plural, God was truly speaking to someone else.

The very fact that God uses singular pronouns when speaking of Himself in thousands of cases causes us to question why He chose to use plural pronouns in this passage and in the other three I mentioned earlier. In the verses preceding Genesis 1:26 which speak of the creative acts of God, singular pronouns are used exclusively in reference to God, and in verse twenty-six a singular verb is used. There must be some reason for this peculiar usage in these passages. In verse twenty-six two plural pronouns and a plural verb are used in connection with God. This change in usage indicates that God is now including others in His address.

The only beings created at this point were the angels, so it seems best to understand angels to be the recipients of God's address. The Jews have always believed that angels were the ones being adressed by God in these verses. We know that the angels were present at creation (Job 38:4, 7), so it is very possible that God was speaking to them. He addressed the angels in a courteous manner, acknowledging that they too had an image like His. God created man in the image of Himself, an image shared by the angels also.

Two objections might occur at this point: 1. How could angels be said to have an image or likeness to God?; 2. How could angels help God create man?

In response to the first objection, it seems best to see the "image" in which man was created to be one of moral, spiritual, intellectual, and emotional qualities rather than any physical qualities or similarities. God and angels both possess all of these attributes that men have. Sometimes we view angels as android beings created by God that have no choice but to serve Him in holiness and righteousness, being emotionless, and have no way of thinking for themselves. This is an unbiblical view. Peter said angels are interested in the activities of the church when he said concerning the gospel being preached with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven, "which things the angels desire to look into" (I Peter 1:12).

We see from this verse that angels do have a will of their own by the fact that they desire to look into these things. God does not command them to do this, but they have a desire to do so. This indicates that angels have an emotional spectrum and intellectual independence. They have spiritual qualities in that they worship God and moral qualities in that they choose to stay pure.4
Regarding the second objection, angels did not participate in any way with the creation of man, but they did participate in some way in the making of man. The Hebrew word translated "make" in Genesis 1:26 is asah. The Hebrew word meaning "create" is bara. Angels do not have the power to create anything, but might have shared in the making of man from the dust of the ground. Vine's comparison and contrast of the two Hebrew words is helpful here:

In <Gen. 1:26-27>...`asah must mean creation from nothing, since it is used as a synonym for bara'. The text reads, "Let us make [`asah] man in our image, after our likeness.... So God created [bara'] man in his own image...." Similarly, <Gen. 2:4> states: "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created [bara'], in the day that the Lord God made [`asah] the earth and the heavens." Finally, <Gen. 5:1> equates the two as follows: "In the day that God created [bara'] man, in the likeness of God made [`asah] he him." The unusual juxtaposition of bara' and `asah in <Gen. 2:3> refers to the totality of creation, which God had "created" by "making."
It is unwarranted to overly refine the meaning of `asah to suggest that it means creation from something, as opposed to creation from nothing. Only context can determine its special nuance. It can mean either, depending upon the situation.5

That the creation consisted of creating and making can be seen in Genesis 2:3-4: "And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created [bara] and made [asah]. These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created [bara], in the day that the LORD God made [asah] the earth and the heavens." The TWOT is also helpful here.

The significant interchange between the words bara "create" and asah is of great interest. The word bara carries the thought of the initiation of the object involved. It always connotes what only God can do and frequently emphasizes the absolute newness of the object created. The word asah is much broader in scope, connoting primarily the fashioning of the object with little concern for special nuances.
The use of bara in the opening statement of the account of creation seems to carry the implication that the physical phenomena came into existence at that time and had no previous existence in the form in which they were created by divine flat. The use of asah may simply connote the act of fashioning the objects involved in the whole creative process.
The word asah is also used elsewhere in Scripture to describe aspects of the creative work of God (Psa 86:9; Psa 95:5; Psa 96:5).6

It might be best to understand the creation of man in a two-fold manner. He was both made and created. He was made (asah) in that his body came from the dust of the ground (earth). The earth was already created by God, so Adam was made from a substance which was already created. He might be said to have been created (bara) in that "God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and He [Adam] became a living soul" (Genesis 2:7). The life invested into the body was a creation of God; a creation which the angels could not participate in.

Because angels could not actually create man, it might be wondered why God even bothered speaking to them concerning man. The reason might be two-fold. First of all, God might have addressed them in a courteous manner because of their intimate presence at this amazing time. Secondly, He addressed them to declare His intentions of making man in their image as well as His: a moral, spiritual, intellectual, and emotional image. After God allowed the angels to participate in the making of man, He created in him a living soul which possessed this image of God and of the angels.

The angels participation in the making of man might be compared to the manner in which believers work miracles. Jesus said, "Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give" (Matthew 10:8). This does not mean that we have the power in and of ourselves to work miracles, even though Jesus spoke these things in the imperative as though it was our responsibility to see that they come about. Although we are to do these things, we do them by relying on the power and will of God. Just as we do not actually work miracles apart from God, neither could the angels actually make man apart from the power and will of God.

[Praxeas]

Genesis 3:22
Genesis 3:22 has a similar grammatical structure to that of Genesis 1:26: "God (plural) said (third person masculine singular), Behold, the man is become as one of us (first person common plural), to know good and evil."7 Here again we see a singular verb being used with plural pronouns.
Thus far we know that those to whom God spoke had an image that was like His, and could be considered to be enough like God to the extent that He could say, "Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil." It might be argued that angels do not know the difference between good and evil, or that at least before the fall of man they didn't know the difference. Again, this type of response is based off of the idea that angels are holy androids with no will of their own.



If angels could not sin, then Lucifer and the other multitudes of angels that rebelled against God could have never actually done so. God would have had to have made them rebel against Him. Angels knew the difference between good and evil before man ever sinned. This knowledge was just as much a part of their nature as it was God's. They did not have to commit evil to know evil, just as God never had to commit evil to know the difference between evil and good.


In support of the idea that God addressed His angels in this passage, notice that immediately after man's disobedience and sin God evicted them from the Garden of Eden and stationed cherubims at the east end of the Garden to block its entrance from man. Angelic activity surrounded God's new creation. That God was addressing angels in Genesis 3:22 flows with the rest of the context, not being hindered by it whatsoever.
http://www.apostolic.net/biblicalstudies/usandour.htm

[Sam]

And the Lord said to the angels who ministered before Him, who had been created in the second day of the creation of the world, Let us make man in Our image, in Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl which are in the atmosphere of heaven, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every reptile creeping upon the earth. And the Lord created man in His Likeness: [JERUSALEM. And the Word of the Lord created man in His likeness, in the likeness of the presence of the Lord He created him, the male and his yoke-fellow He created them.] In the image of the Lord He created him, with two hundred and forty and eight members, with three hundred and sixty and five nerves, and overlaid them with skin, and filled it with flesh and blood. Male and female in their bodies He created them. And He blessed them, and the Lord said to them, Increase and multiply, and fill the earth with sons and daughters, and prevail over it, in its possessions; and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the fowl of the earth. Targum Jonathan

And the Lord said, Let us make Man in Our image, as Our likeness; and shall have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the heavens, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every reptile which moveth upon the earth. And the Lord created the Adam in His image, in the image of the Lord He created him; male and female He created them. And the Lord blessed them, and said to them, spread abroad, and become many, and fill the earth, and be strong upon it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the heavens, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Targum Onkelos