America 2016: Free Speech for a selected few.

[n david]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Not in any technical sense. I will give you that. But the fact that it had to be cancelled or risk being turned into a riot, when there were probably some very sincere and innocent people there who merely wanted a chance to support the man they want for president was taken from them, no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

Most there likely assembled peacefully with no harmful intent, but then had to watch their peaceable, good intentions to support a candidate get trampled on as they were dispersed due to the cancellation.

The few bad apples spoiled the barrel. That spoiling is where rights were lost. Wherever a crime takes place, rights are automatically taken.

I agree some honest people there were unfortunately denied the opportunity (not right) to hear their candidate speak; however, it is really hard for me to be sympathetic to people who's candidate has publicly called for violence against anyone who is against him.

I also doubt this was Trump's call to cancel. I believe the police made the decision to cancel.

I just asked on a post prior to this, but what crime(s) was/were committed?

[votivesoul]

Whether or not charges will be forthcoming, disturbing the peace, incitement to riot, disorderly conduct, and such misdemeanors? How bad did it really get, that no one has seen? Assault?

[n david]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Whether or not charges will be forthcoming, disturbing the peace, incitement to riot, disorderly conduct, and such misdemeanors? How bad did it really get, that no one has seen? Assault?

I looked up some Chicago ordinances:

8-24-1, Disorderly Conduct:
A person commits disorderly conduct when he knowingly:
A. Breach Of The Peace: Does any act in such unreasonable manner as to alarm or disturb another and to provoke a breach of the peace;

While this occurred in Nevada, this would apply to "provoking a breach of the peace," IMO

https://youtu.be/2yhZZwVAqMg


8-24-5: - BATTERY:
A person commits battery if he intentionally or knowingly without legal justification and by any means: 1) causes bodily harm to an individual, or 2) makes physical contact of an insulting or provoking nature with an individual.

and

8-24-5A: - ASSAULT:
A person commits an assault when, without lawful authority, he engages in conduct which places another in reasonable apprehension of receiving a battery.

Again, not in Chicago, but this likely applied even in the city where the dude with the ponytail did this

https://youtu.be/AoA_mjVrvs4


8-24-7: - DISTURBING ASSEMBLAGES:
It shall be unlawful for any person to disturb any lawful assemblage or gathering in the City.

Protesters may be charged with this. I disagree a lot with this ordinance, because it gives no allowance for any type of protest.


8-24-32: - MOB ACTION:
It shall be unlawful for any person to engage in mob action. Mob action consists of any of the following:

A. The use of force or violence disturbing the public peace by two (2) or more persons acting together and without authority of law;

I have yet to see acts of violence from the protesters, but if there was any, this could apply.


8-24-37: - CRIMINAL DAMAGE TO PROPERTY:
A. Prohibited Acts: A person violates this Section when he performs any of the following acts:

1. Knowingly damages any property of another without his consent;

I couldn't find the definition of property, but, depending on the definition, the Trump supporters shown in footage trying to rip and destroy the protesters flags and banners could be guilty of this.

[Servant's <3]

Shouldn't this be in the Politics forum?

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by n david

I looked up some Chicago ordinances:

8-24-1, Disorderly Conduct:
A person commits disorderly conduct when he knowingly:
A. Breach Of The Peace: Does any act in such unreasonable manner as to alarm or disturb another and to provoke a breach of the peace;

While this occurred in Nevada, this would apply to "provoking a breach of the peace," IMO

https://youtu.be/2yhZZwVAqMg


8-24-5: - BATTERY:
A person commits battery if he intentionally or knowingly without legal justification and by any means: 1) causes bodily harm to an individual, or 2) makes physical contact of an insulting or provoking nature with an individual.

and

8-24-5A: - ASSAULT:
A person commits an assault when, without lawful authority, he engages in conduct which places another in reasonable apprehension of receiving a battery.

Again, not in Chicago, but this likely applied even in the city where the dude with the ponytail did this

https://youtu.be/AoA_mjVrvs4


8-24-7: - DISTURBING ASSEMBLAGES:
It shall be unlawful for any person to disturb any lawful assemblage or gathering in the City.

Protesters may be charged with this. I disagree a lot with this ordinance, because it gives no allowance for any type of protest.


8-24-32: - MOB ACTION:
It shall be unlawful for any person to engage in mob action. Mob action consists of any of the following:

A. The use of force or violence disturbing the public peace by two (2) or more persons acting together and without authority of law;

I have yet to see acts of violence from the protesters, but if there was any, this could apply.


8-24-37: - CRIMINAL DAMAGE TO PROPERTY:
A. Prohibited Acts: A person violates this Section when he performs any of the following acts:

1. Knowingly damages any property of another without his consent;

I couldn't find the definition of property, but, depending on the definition, the Trump supporters shown in footage trying to rip and destroy the protesters flags and banners could be guilty of this.

From my time working at the DA I learned that it is best to charge a person with as many crimes as possible, that way the person will be at least convicted of one.

[n david]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

From my time working at the DA I learned that it is best to charge a person with as many crimes as possible, that way the person will be at least convicted of one.

That's true. I read that four protesters from the Chicago rally were arrested. All had one charge of "resisting arrest" which is typical at a protest. A couple others had interfering with police and battery of an officer included with the resisting.

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by n david

That's true. I read that four protesters from the Chicago rally were arrested. All had one charge of "resisting arrest" which is typical at a protest. A couple others had interfering with police and battery of an officer included with the resisting.

I would counsel the police to pile on the charges as many as they could think of and then some more.

Then I would counsel the trump camp to bring lawsuits against each individual person, then bring lawsuits to the organizations and then to bring more accusations against the protestors. Punish with the biggest hammer available each individual protestor and every organization involved, break them organizationally, financially, and spiritually.

[n david]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

I would counsel the police to pile on the charges as many as they could think of and then some more.

Then I would counsel the trump camp to bring lawsuits against each individual person, then bring lawsuits to the organizations and then to bring more accusations against the protestors. Punish with the biggest hammer available each individual protestor and every organization involved, break them organizationally, financially, and spiritually.

So the iron fist of a dictator is what you want. You want Stalin. Putin. You don't want Democracy.

Trump has no standing to sue. If anything, the protesters have more cause to sue due to Trump's threats of violence against them.

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by n david

So the iron fist of a dictator is what you want. You want Stalin. Putin. You don't want Democracy.

Trump has no standing to sue. If anything, the protesters have more cause to sue due to Trump's threats of violence against them.

If I wanted Stalin or Putin, I would move to cuba or russia . and democracy means the right of each side to hold their own rallies, democracy means that each side is free to hold rallies without being disrupted by the other side.

Then Trump and his supporters need to find some legal loophole that would allow them to sue.

[n david]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

If I wanted Stalin or Putin, I would move to cuba or russia . and democracy means the right of each side to hold their own rallies, democracy means that each side is free to hold rallies without being disrupted by the other side.

No, Democracy allows BOTH, the opportunity to peacefully assemble AND the opportunity to peacefully protest.