Job did not have free will or choice when God allowed the Devil to visit him with hardship.
If you believe in the literalness of that story, then surely you must believe that He would still allow that today.
Job and any other similar incidents (Joseph is another) are the exception... not the rule.
God certainly does lead a few lives for His specific purpose and to fulfill a specific plan in His Kingdom. But there is no indication that God goes around steering every single persons life.
I think it also needs to be taken into consideration that there are things that God did in the OT that aren't part of His plan in the NT. God instructed his people to kill other nations including men, women & children. I see no indication that these sort of activities are still a part of the way God deals with his people. God instructed people to be put to death. Same thought applies.
These are no longer a part of the operation of God through His people.
So... these OT examples can surely give us a sense that it is possible that God would directly lead certain lives to fulfill a specific purpose for His Kingdom but even that is not in stone unless we can find an example in the NT where God is still operating in that manner.
Last edited by Digging4Truth; 11-12-2010 at 08:08 AM.
nope. You don't tell her about why it happened. You tell her that God is there to help her through it.
If God can "help her through it", why couldn't He just prevent it? God's rules of engagement are just weird. A man wants to rape a little girl. God knows this, lets it happen, and watches. But He's "helping her through it". If a human were to witness something like this taking place, and just watch, calling out encouraging things to her, but not interfering with that rapist's free will, he would be nearly as evil as the rapist!
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
If God can "help her through it", why couldn't He just prevent it? God's rules of engagement are just weird. A man wants to rape a little girl. God knows this, lets it happen, and watches. But He's "helping her through it". If a human were to witness something like this taking place, and just watch, calling out encouraging things to her, but not interfering with that rapist's free will, he would be nearly as evil as the rapist!
It sounds like you're saying God is nearly as evil as the rapist. Do I understand that correctly? If I've totally mis-understood you I'll come back and delete this quesiton.
It sounds like you're saying God is nearly as evil as the rapist. Do I understand that correctly? If I've totally mis-understood you I'll come back and delete this quesiton.
I'm pointing out a problem with certain claims about God.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Job did not have free will or choice when God allowed the Devil to visit him with hardship.
If you believe in the literalness of that story, then surely you must believe that He would still allow that today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digging4Truth
Life is life. And that's that. God doesn't "allow" things. Things happen. And God is our strength to make it through those things.
Job had Free will during his trial. He chose not to curse God.
@Dig: God has to allow it to happen because he is omnipotent. To stop it would be to interfere with our free will.
@Timmy: If he interferes with free will of your rapist, then He makes the guy a Robot for all practical purposes. He won't make us do what He wants us to. Bad happens because of us.. Good endures because of Him. ~Ian Williams
~Paul~
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Out of the darkness, 3 arrows shot from a longbow in quick succession hit their target.. A closer look reveals a cloaked figure, barely visible. Upon stepping into the light, you see whom it is! The Ranger's Apprentice!
Job had Free will during his trial. He chose not to curse God.
@Dig: God has to allow it to happen because he is omnipotent. To stop it would be to interfere with our free will.
@Timmy: If he interferes with free will of your rapist, then He makes the guy a Robot for all practical purposes. He won't make us do what He wants us to. Bad happens because of us.. Good endures because of Him. ~Ian Williams
~Paul~
I'd make him a "robot", in a heartbeat.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Why did Eric Liddell die in a prison camp at the age of 43? (Ref God Is First Thread)
Why does God allow babies to be born with severe disabilities?
Why do teenagers die before they even get to become adults?
Why does God allow parents to abuse their children?
Why does God allow war and famine and drought and etc?
We really don't know.
We just have to believe/trust that God knows what He is doing and that He has more sense than we think He does.
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Sam also known as Jim Ellis
Apostolic in doctrine
Pentecostal in experience
Charismatic in practice
Non-denominational in affiliation
Inter-denominational in fellowship
I've heard it preached so often that "God is a gentleman. He won't force anyone to be saved." If He won't force someone to be saved, why should we think He will stop all evil things from happening? He allowed Himself to be crucified. Considering that, do we think He would stop all evil things from happening even to us? Oh, I know we all hear the sermons and testimonies about the girl that shouted as the thugs opened fire on the church, and how after they left her dress was full of holes but she was ok, the missionaries that thieves didn't rob because of "those huge body guards" that the missionaries didn't see, or the man overseas who had a bullet fired into his face, and who caught the bullet in his teeth with no harm done. However, those stories are very rare, and very difficult to prove. Several denominations have shared a few. On the other hand, God allowed Stephen to be stoned. But Stephen's greatest witness may have been to one of the men standing in the crowd as the rocks started flying... Saul of Tarsus. Many people in the early church were martyred. Bad things happened.
I think sometimes we get the idea that God is some type of good luck charm. He never promised that nothing bad would happen though. What He did promise was that He would be with us no matter what happened, and that He could make something good come even of the worst situations.
Too, I think some have heard too much about how God punishes those who sin. Yet David said in Psalm 73 "2But as for me, my feet were almost gone; my steps had well nigh slipped. 3For I was envious at the foolish, when I saw the prosperity of the wicked. 4For there are no bands in their death: but their strength is firm. 5They are not in trouble as other men; neither are they plagued like other men." God doesn't open the earth and swallow everyone who sins, even if what they do is horrid. And I think we should all be thankful for that.
For once, I have to agree with Aquila. God has given man free will. Man made a choice in the Garden, and has been making bad choices ever since. If God stopped us from making poor choices, we'd no longer have free choice.
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What we make of the Bible will never be as great a thing as what the Bible will - if we let it - make of us.~Rich Mullins
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.~Galileo Galilei
I think it is fair to say this is one of the most difficult problems for Christians to deal with.
Some philosophies are still trying to figure out what is good and what is evil, others such as Scientology deny the existence of reality. But Christianity must come to terms with the fact that they have defined good and evil, they believe it actually exists and they believe in an all good all powerful God who seems to be standing by watching with His arms crossed while bad things happen to the innocent.
Asaph complains of the same thing in Psalm 73. He wants to know why the wicked prosper and the righteous suffer. We as humans want to scream at God, "That's not fair." If this life were all that there was we certainly would be justified in our accusation. But like Asaph observed "Then I saw their end."
Without the vantage point of eternity it is arrogant to complain to God, "that's not fair." We believe that an all loving, all powerful God will one day destroy evil and wrongs will be made right. So it is not that God is either not loving or not powerful enough to destroy evil it is that he has not YET destroyed evil.
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"Beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow." ~Aesop
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