Cult of the Past: Apostolic Identity Revealed?

[Pro31:28]

Originally Posted by coadie

The young generation with pride and unhealthy egos.

The older generation fought battles and misery in brush arbors . Lived without electricity so you could go on the web and whine.

Joel Osteen is your style.

Originally Posted by coadie

You created a false dichotomy. (A) rotting religion of the past or (B) Joel osteenYou seem to have a distorted caricature of some forms of old time religion.
General Conference is like a church picnic. There is no persecution of the church when it is just a gathering of saints.

Nope, you did that-

I was pointing out that there is more than only those two choices

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Pro31:28

I don't think that I have to choose between rotting tradition and Joel Osteen- .

Who calls it rotting?

Cult of the Past: Apostolic Identity Revealed?

Is it a cult also?

[Pro31:28]

Originally Posted by Pro31:28

I don't think that I have to choose between rotting tradition and Joel Osteen- As a matter of fact I was just thinking the other day when I heard the song, "Give me that old time religion", It's NOT good enough for me; I do not want religion; I want a relationship.

I do not want my children doing something because "they are supposed to" or because it will get them in the Pastor's good graces. I want transparency in my life and in my children's. It costs a person a lot to put up a front or a mask, to become a tombstone of the faith. While you are there to stay, you are also accomplishing nothing.

But let's all dance around, inflate our numbers and pretend that we have it all together. Let's spend our services singing songs about what WE are, and preaching messages about what WE aren't~ No thanks, you can have that Old Time Religion, Just give me Jesus.

Originally Posted by Pro31:28

I am so proud of you, Coadie

I am not really sure what one question has to with the other. I do witness, (in fact I spent a long time with a particular teenager last night who came to youth group and was having some anger issues) and I do respect my elders, but that is not what I am talking about.

Can you tell me how the most recent General Conference looked like the Church in Acts? Somewhere along the line someone started new traditions, but as long as we sit back and say "that is how God wants it" people think that by doing something different that they are out of the Will of God.
There are traditions that outlive their time, and when contiued to be followed, they rot. The UPCI was fresh in the 40's and 50's, and as long as there are a few people to tell others that God will send them to hell if they don't follow THE rules, then there will always be a few members left.

Do I believe that God still moves there, yes. Do I beleive that their method is good, not at all.

Originally Posted by coadie

Who calls it rotting?



Is it a cult also?

That would be me who called it rotting, for all of the reasons bolded above. I think it does have many of the hallmarks of a cult and I think that there are more than a couple of specific UPC churches that are a cult.

[Pro31:28]

Originally Posted by coadie

Who calls it rotting?



Is it a cult also?

Do you think there are churches in the UPC that lean towards "cultic"

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Pro31:28

Do you think there are churches in the UPC that lean towards "cultic"

As a psychologist, when I see a church people don't like called a cult, it is more of a name calling issue.
I don't see them as "cultic" at all. Some are more strict than others but the same applies to employers.

[Charnock]

Bruce Tuckman said that every group goes through five stages.

1. Forming
2. Storming
3. Norming
4. Performing
5. Adjourning

[Pro31:28]

Originally Posted by coadie

As a psychologist, when I see a church people don't like called a cult, it is more of a name calling issue.
I don't see them as "cultic" at all. Some are more strict than others but the same applies to employers.

Really, you are a psychologist and you don't think that ANY of the churches in the UPC are cultic?
What employer tells you who you should marry, who you should divorce, and when you should have sex? How many employers tell you that if you miss work one day you are going to Hell?
How many employers claim to be the voice of God?

Not equal in any way Dr. Coadie

[Charnock]

Oneness Pentecostalism is too defined.

The God of Oneness Pentecostals is limited. He can only move along predictable channels that church elders have carved out. In this way he is nothing more than an image created by man.

As Biblical knowledge has increased, and many of the standards of the past have been exposed as human creations with no scriptural foundation, organizational leaders have began appealing to our sense of reverence and respect for our ancestors instead of directing us to a more perfect way.

I believe God has rejected the ideals and methods of traditional Oneness Pentecostalism and is pouring out His Spirit upon all flesh.

Survival of the fittest has a spiritual application. Only the strong survive, and the extra-biblical doctrines of Oneness Pentecostals are a poor substitute for spiritual strength.

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Charnock

Bruce Tuckman said that every group goes through five stages.

1. Forming
2. Storming
3. Norming
4. Performing
5. Adjourning

We covered that in business 15 years ago. A lot of churches never used that template.

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Pro31:28

Really, you are a psychologist and you don't think that ANY of the churches in the UPC are cultic?
What employer tells you who you should marry, who you should divorce, and when you should have sex? How many employers tell you that if you miss work one day you are going to Hell?
How many employers claim to be the voice of God?

Not equal in any way Dr. Coadie

No. After church is out on Sunday morning, people drive themselves home to lunch or work. Verbal abuse is common at employment also. The military has much more control than do these churches.