John 20:23's "Retaining Sin"

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by jlw515

John 20:23 is part of John's account of the "Great Commission." Whereas Mathew and Mark specify "baptism;" Luke and John refer to remission of sins. So, I take John 20:23 as being a reference to baptism for the remission of sins. "Retaining sins," to me, would then refer to not baptizing a person who has not actually repented of their sins.

JLW

agreed

[Sabby]

I tend to think that this was personally directed to the apostles within the sound of Jesus' voice. Whosoever sins YOU retain. Jesus did not say, whosoever sins you forgive or retain God forgives or retains. He said whosoever sins YOU retain they are retained, to you. jimo.
I'm willing to dialogue with anyone that understands the nuance of the language.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Shingledecker

I tend to think that this was personally directed to the apostles within the sound of Jesus' voice. Whosoever sins YOU retain. Jesus did not say, whosoever sins you forgive or retain God forgives or retains. He said whosoever sins YOU retain they are retained, to you. jimo.
I'm willing to dialogue with anyone that understands the nuance of the language.

I wonder who that rules out?

[Deo Gratias]

A priest is permitted to deny absolution is he is reasonably certain the penitent lacks contrition. Contrition is necessary for a valid confession. Instances of this might be someone who confesses that they are living with someone they are not married to but is unwilling to change their situation. I personally knew a person that faithfully went to confession every Saturday and was always confessing the same mortal sin. Eventually the priest told him point blank that it was obvious that he was not sincerely sorry and was not doing anything to try to overcome his sinfulness and refused to give him absolution.

Sister Ann Shields tells of going to Confession one week with her usual grocery list of venial sins. The priest refused her absolution, and told her to come back the next week with one sin for which she was truly sorry.

Here's the Haydock commentary on this particular passage of scripture.

http://haydock1859.tripod.com/id113.html

Ver. 23. Whose sins you shall forgive,[2] &c. These words clearly express the power of forgiving sins, which, as God, he gave to his apostles, and to their successors, bishops and priests, to forgive sins in his name, as his ministers, and instruments, even though they are sinners themselves. For in this, they act not by their own power, nor in their own name, but in the name of God, who as the principal cause, always remitteth sins. This is generally allowed to be done by God's ministers in the sacrament of baptism, as to the remission of original sin; and the Catholic Church has always held the same of God's ministers, in the sacrament of penance. (See the Protestant Common Prayer Book, in the Visitation of the Sick.) --- Whose sins you shall retain, they are retained: by which we see, that to priests is given a power to be exercised, not only by forgiving, but also by retaining; not only by absolving and loosing, but also by binding, by refusing, or deferring absolution, according to the dispositions that are found in sinners, when they accuse themselves of their sins. From hence must needs follow an obligation on the sinner's part, to declare, and confess their sins in particular, to the ministers of God, who are appointed the spiritual judges, and physicians of their souls. A judge must know the cause, and a physician the distemper: the one to pronounce a just sentence, the other to prescribe suitable remedies. (Witham) --- See here the commission, stamped by the broad seal of heaven, by virtue of which, the pastors of Christ's Church absolve repenting sinners upon their confession. (Challoner)

[Jay]

I think that it is probably the best definition. When an individual wishes to be baptized, the ministry has a responsibility to determine to decide if they are truly repentant of their sins. If a person is not truly repented, then remission of sins is of no benefit. If they are repentant, then the ministry is to baptize for remission of sins. I think (my opinion which is a dangerous thing to have when discussing Scripture) that this is the best interpretation of this passage.

[Aquila]

Who hasn't gone to a pastor and confessed a sin they struggle with and the pastor pray with them, pleading the blood of Jesus?

I also believe that it might have to do with church discipline, and not salvation. For example, let's say a brother or sister commits a grave sin in the church. The elders have the power to bind that sin upon a man, calling him to repent or perish. If the man repents, he might be back in fellowship with God. However, if the elders wish to retain that man's sin, he may not be welcome back to that specific body.

[Aquila]

Also I think of this verse...

James 5:14-16
King James Version (KJV)
14Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

The forgiveness of sin is often administered by an anointed man of God through faith filled prayer and anointing with oil.