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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


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  #11  
Old 04-18-2007, 01:15 AM
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Felicity Felicity is offline
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Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne View Post
Which ones? Are we sure they were mental illnesses, necessarily?

I know there was the man who wasn't in his right mind, but I can name a lot of people in the Bible who were erratic in behavior, including prophets of God, but they weren't possessed.

I believe people can be possessed, but that doesn't mean they are mentally ill, nor is the opposite necessarily true.
I know. I was just making a bullet type point and didn't take the time to explain.

I know that not all mental illness is a result of demonic influence or activity.
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  #12  
Old 04-18-2007, 01:21 AM
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seguidordejesus seguidordejesus is offline
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I don't know about mental illness, but I've sure rebuked the demon of diarrhea a time or two
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  #13  
Old 04-18-2007, 02:35 AM
HappyPastor2
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Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne View Post

The church doesn't appear to address this issue often, except to pray demons out of sufferers. Depression is a large problem in the church, but people are told to get out more and pray about it.

Our moods are caused by chemical secretions in the brain. Whether we are happy, sad, angry, depressed, or indifferent, how we feel is dependent on the chemicals being secreted in the brain. So why do we feel that abnormalities in the brain aren't as important as abnormalities in other organs, or that a demon is involved?

Shouldn't the church start addressing these issues more often? Should people be a little more educated about mental diseases and illnesses?

What say ye?
There are a good many publications and sources by apostolics on this issue: I would recommend any of the books by Linda Allison Doty or Brother J.R. Ensey on the subject. Both are highly qualified and have helped many people. They founded the Soteric Counselling Institute that trains counsellers in biblically-based counselling for depression and other mental illnesses. Their writings on the misuse of psychtropic/psychoactive drugs in our society are must reading. Look at http://www.lyndadoty.com/ and http://www.advanceministries.org/ for more information.

Also, some of the diseases and conditions that you mentioned as being caused by "chemical imbalances" are not. The term chemical imbalance as applied to brain chemistry is clearly an over-worked term in pop psychology and literature. It is also used without understanding by many doctors and health practitioners when they have no idea how to diagnose or treat patients. Very little is really known about brain chemistry as it relates to diagnosis or treatment.

Could some people exhibiting bizzare behavior be possessed? Sure. Could something be going on that is physiological (brain tumors, swelling, etc.)? Sure. Could someone be exhibiting strange behaviors and experiencing symptoms due to normal human reaction to pressures, stress and occurrences that affect the seat of their emotions. Again, sure.

Medical literature is repleat with things that can have an effect on brain chemistry: diet, exercise, stress, drugs, trauma and more. What is normal "brain chemistry?" No one but God knows, literally. I recommend reading books by those mentioned earlier as well as any book by Dr. Peter Breggin.

Blessings,
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  #14  
Old 04-18-2007, 11:32 AM
HeavenlyOne HeavenlyOne is offline
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Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
I know. I was just making a bullet type point and didn't take the time to explain.

I know that not all mental illness is a result of demonic influence or activity.
I got ya.

It's amazing at how many people do feel that way. I just wish the church would address this issue more realistically and more often and put an end to the stigma that exists about mental diseases and illnesses.
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  #15  
Old 04-18-2007, 11:33 AM
HeavenlyOne HeavenlyOne is offline
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Originally Posted by seguidordejesus View Post
I don't know about mental illness, but I've sure rebuked the demon of diarrhea a time or two
ROFL! Oh my! I'm sure glad I wasn't taking a drink when reading this!
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  #16  
Old 04-18-2007, 11:35 AM
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Some mental illnesses are demonic, and I have proved it to be so by casting devils out. But some are not. However, devils can also cause chemical imbalances -- physical states, as the spirit of infirmity caused a phsyical bowing over of the woman's body in the bible.
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  #17  
Old 04-18-2007, 11:54 AM
Chan
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Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
Some mental illnesses are demonic, and I have proved it to be so by casting devils out. But some are not. However, devils can also cause chemical imbalances -- physical states, as the spirit of infirmity caused a phsyical bowing over of the woman's body in the bible.
It has not been proven that chemical imbalances in the brain cause so-called "mental illnesses" and there is no test that can be done on a live human being to determine whether or not there is a chemical imbalance in the brain.
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  #18  
Old 04-18-2007, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Chan View Post
It has not been proven that chemical imbalances in the brain cause so-called "mental illnesses" and there is no test that can be done on a live human being to determine whether or not there is a chemical imbalance in the brain.
I agree. Good point.
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  #19  
Old 04-18-2007, 12:00 PM
HeavenlyOne HeavenlyOne is offline
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Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
Some mental illnesses are demonic, and I have proved it to be so by casting devils out. But some are not. However, devils can also cause chemical imbalances -- physical states, as the spirit of infirmity caused a phsyical bowing over of the woman's body in the bible.
I heard about a woman who had cancer. They prayed over her, demons were cast out, she vomited some hairy looking thing, and her cancer was gone.

I believe the devil can make us sick, even without possession. For instance, I think if Job would have taken meds to get rid of his boils, it wouldn't have worked because it was purely the devil's doing.

With mental illnesses and diseases, however, some see it differently than just being a physiological problem. Yes, the devil is directly responsible many times, but in most cases, it's an illness just like anything else we might suffer from.

I just see such a misconception among us regarding mental illness. Depression is a big issue in the church but it's rarely addressed, and when it is, the victim is blamed (they should pray more, get out more, etc.).

We deal with addictions, which are controlled mentally, out in the open, but we shy away from other problems and conditions that are just as serious.

What is the proper response to dealing with people who have mental illnesses and diseases?
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  #20  
Old 04-18-2007, 12:09 PM
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For the most part I tend to embrace a belief that mental illness is demonic in its essence, while physical illness, other than those inflicted through injury of some type, are representative of a judgment from God. Yes, I know! I can almost feel the heat and hear the yells of those who would be quick to refute this assertion, however, I beg of you to bear with me for a few moments as I endeavor to explain.

In Job 33:14-22 we find it written that -

For God speaketh ONCE, yea TWICE, yet man perceiveth it NOT. The important question which confronts us as we read these words MUST be this - "Through what means does God attempt to communicate with man, yet he PERCEIVETH it not? We discover the answer within the context of the following passages:

"In a DREAM, in a VISION of the night, when deep sleep falleth upon men, in slumberings upon the bed; THEN (i.e., at that time) he OPENETH the ears of men, and SEALETH their instruction, (and He does this so) that he may WITHDRAW MAN FROM HIS PURPOSER, and HIDE PRIDE from man. (Through this means) He keepeth back his soul from the pit, and his life from perishing by the sword (i.e., the Word of God)

But, as Paul Harvey says, "Here's the rest of the story!"

He is CHASTENED also with pain upon his bed, and the multitude of his bones with strong pain: (so much) so that his life abhorreth bread, and his soul dainty meat. His flesh is consumed away, (so) that is cannot be seen; and his bones (which) were not seen stick out. Yes, his soul draweth near unto the grave, and his life to the destroyers.

By these passages we find that God often INFLICTS man, saint and sinner alike, with sickness, and this for the express purpose of attempting to gain man's attention, thereby causing him to re-direct his footsteps. Please note that God does NOT bring such SICKNESS upon man to destroy him, rather to steer him in the pathways of righteousness. And, IF there be a messenger with him (the afflicted), an interpreter, one among a thousand, to SHEW unto man his (God's) uprightness: THEN he (God) is gracious unto him, and saith, DELIVER him from going down to the pit: I have found a ransom. That "RANSOM" can be found at the foot of the old rugged cross, where they crucified our Lord.

(Note: added emphasis within scriptural passages quoted are my own & have been inserted for the purpose of explanation ONLY.)

Submitted for prayerful consider of its scriptural merits.
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