What Is Your Interpretation? - Page 2

mfblume · #11 03-19-2009, 09:18 PM

I believe that the note about no condemnation to them who walk after the Spirit means that once we learn to cease serving in oldness of the letter, which is walking after the flesh, we will be free of the condemnation that is described in the verses of chapter 7 that relate failure in wanting to do good and being unable to do it. Once one stops this circus of walking after the flesh by merely willing with the mind, but instead committing evil, one succeeds!

I really believe this is not speaking idealistically as some propose.

Digging4Truth · #12 03-19-2009, 10:56 PM

Still studying... and having a great time at it too... God is certainly good to us.

Here are a few of the verses from "The Message"

Romans 7:21-25, 8:1-2

21-23It happens so regularly that it's predictable. The moment I decide to do good, sin is there to trip me up. I truly delight in God's commands, but it's pretty obvious that not all of me joins in that delight. Parts of me covertly rebel, and just when I least expect it, they take charge.

24I've tried everything and nothing helps. I'm at the end of my rope. Is there no one who can do anything for me? Isn't that the real question?

25The answer, thank God, is that Jesus Christ can and does. He acted to set things right in this life of contradictions where I want to serve God with all my heart and mind, but am pulled by the influence of sin to do something totally different.

1-2With the arrival of Jesus, the Messiah, that fateful dilemma is resolved. Those who enter into Christ's being-here-for-us no longer have to live under a continuous, low-lying black cloud. A new power is in operation. The Spirit of life in Christ, like a strong wind, has magnificently cleared the air, freeing you from a fated lifetime of brutal tyranny at the hands of sin and death.

mfblume · #13 03-20-2009, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

The Spirit of life in Christ, like a strong wind, has magnificently cleared the air, freeing you from a fated lifetime of brutal tyranny at the hands of sin and death.

That is the answer. We do not have to live with failure failure failure. The Spirit of the Lord is our strength and power. Ro 6:13 says that the key to release from condemnation and defeat and failure is to not will ourselves to do good, but to actually start depending ON THAT SPIRIT by yielding ourselves to Him -- THIS IS PRAYER. Many think they simply are left to make themselves try their best to serve God. But Paul is trying to tell us that WE NEED TO PRAY for God to empower us to be able to do His will.

Philippians says that it is of God BOT TO WILL AND TO DO His good pleasure. This means the ability to do this comes from God!'

When people simply use will power, they are walking after the flesh. That is called "serving in oldness of the letter," because the old testament people did not have the empowering Spirit like we do. All they COULD DO was use will power. And they failed. Hence, Romans 3 lists all the old testament witness scriptures of how none of them failed and they were all sinful, despite the Law they had.

God has left us with a requirement to do what MANKIND cannot do on his own. It reminds me of James words in his epistle about the tongue that no man can tame. After saying no man can tame the tongue, he says we ought not to be blessing and cursing with the same mouth. Stop and think about it. If he just told us no man can tame the tongue, what is he rebuking believers for in saying they ought not be speaking cruses and blessings from the same mouth. This is the same dilemma of having a law of God and yet being unable to keep it. The solution is that THE SPIRIT OF LIFE has been given to us, for with man alone this is impossible, but WITH GOD, all things are possible! We were never expected to do this on our own. Paul described attempts in human power alone to do God's will in Romans 7 before he spoke the words Digging4truth quoted. The answer is resorting to the SPIRIT OF GOD instead!

Digging4Truth · #14 03-20-2009, 10:57 AM

I have had some errands to run today and this message is continuing to run through my spirit and teach me more and more.

Living by the law rather than the spirit is akin to attempting to emulate relationship by a list of rules.

For a good marriage...

1. Tell her you love her every day.
2. Take her out to eat on her birthday & your anniversary.
3. Don't look at other women.
4. Tell her she is pretty.

Are the rules bad? No.

But they will never create relationship by themselves.

But relationship... without the listing of rules... will create these same things in us but they will be coming from the heart and not out of step by step obedience.

What the listing of rules could not do (because of the weakness of my flesh to put the pieces together and create relationship) can be accomplished through relationship.

mfblume · #15 03-20-2009, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

I have had some errands to run today and this message is continuing to run through my spirit and teach me more and more.

Living by the law rather than the spirit is akin to attempting to emulate relationship by a list of rules.

For a good marriage...

1. Tell her you love her every day.
2. Take her out to eat on her birthday & your anniversary.
3. Don't look at other women.
4. Tell her she is pretty.

Are the rules bad? No.

But they will never create relationship by themselves.

But relationship... without the listing of rules... will create these same things in us but they will be coming from the heart and not out of step by step obedience.

What the listing of rules could not do (because of the weakness of my flesh to put the pieces together and create relationship) can be accomplished through relationship.

Amen.

Relationship is putting the SPIRIT of the marriage into the marriage. Not just stone-cold rulebook adherence. And the SPIRIT OF THE LAW is God's Spirit, Itself!

Speaking of relationship, Rom 7:4 says we are married to Christ in order to bring forth fruit unto God, after having been delivered from Law that actually caused us to produce works of the flesh. Bringing forth fruit unto God actually causes us to fulfill the Law without conscious will power to do so. It is a NATURAL FRUIT of relationship. The law has nothing against the fruit of the Spirit that are produced due to a relationship with Jesus. But we did not arrive with those fruit through law-keeping and rule-book mentality.

There is a proper way that a marriage should work. There are proper rules, so to speak. But without actually resorting to a rulebook, per se, we fulfill all that the best rulebook on marriage could tell us to fulfill, without reliance on a rulebook! And this is through simply relationship and genuine love.

Sam · #16 03-20-2009, 11:32 AM

Romans chapters 6, 7, and 8 go together.

Chapter 6 tells us that when we accepted Christ we became a partaker of His death, burial, and resurrection. We have died to sin and we have new life (the life of Christ) in us. This is the same thing Paul talks about in Philippians 2:12-13 where he says
we can do
because Jesus in us gives us
the want to
and the how to.

It's the same thing Paul talks about in Galatians 5 where he tells us to walk in the Spirit (or by means of the Spirit) and not walk in the flesh or live like our human nature wants to.

Romans 8 talks about the Holy Spirit or Christ in us. He's mentioned over 30 times in that chapter as the Spirit, Spirit of life, etc.

Romans 7 tells about the struggle we have with our two natures --the old man and the new man.

Paul acknowledges that he doesn't always live up to what he should and thanks God for His mercy that covers our weaknesses and failures.

Well, you asked for my opinion.

mfblume · #17 03-20-2009, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

Romans chapters 6, 7, and 8 go together.

Chapter 6 tells us that when we accepted Christ we became a partaker of His death, burial, and resurrection. We have died to sin and we have new life (the life of Christ) in us. This is the same thing Paul talks about in Philippians 2:12-13 where he says
we can do
because Jesus in us gives us
the want to
and the how to.

It's the same thing Paul talks about in Galatians 5 where he tells us to walk in the Spirit (or by means of the Spirit) and not walk in the flesh or live like our human nature wants to.

Romans 8 talks about the Holy Spirit or Christ in us. He's mentioned over 30 times in that chapter as the Spirit, Spirit of life, etc.

Romans 7 tells about the struggle we have with our two natures --the old man and the new man.

Paul acknowledges that he doesn't always live up to what he should and thanks God for His mercy that covers our weaknesses and failures.

Thanks, bro!

I agree with all you said, very awesome stuff, except I would personally change your last line to say this:

Paul acknowledges that we will not live up to what we should if we continue to be unaware of the difference between serving in oldness of the letter, as described in 7:15-23, and newness of the Spirit, which is described in 6:13. God's grace is divine empowerment, and we unintentionally walk around that when we try to serve God in the flesh.

...For everyone's consideration.

Anniehorses · #18 08-05-2009, 01:03 AM

We serve God with the mind of christ but are flesh has it's own nature in sin in sensations of the body.

Godsdrummer · #19 08-05-2009, 07:36 AM

Mike B and Digging for the Truth

God stuff man realy good stuff Thanks I have come to see these things in the last several years myself but the two of you have put things into words better than I have been able to

Digging4Truth · #20 08-05-2009, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Mike B and Digging for the Truth

God stuff man really good stuff Thanks I have come to see these things in the last several years myself but the two of you have put things into words better than I have been able to

He did promise us he would lead & guide us into all truth didn't he? And, in his time and by his wisdom, he continues to show us his nature. Thank God for having such patience with us and being so faithful to show us his nature so we can, in turn, live it day by day.