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  #11  
Old 10-22-2008, 07:14 PM
OP_Carl OP_Carl is offline
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Re: The Looming constitutional crisis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ILG View Post
Hmm...was, is not and yet is. Maybe that's what would happen.
Fascinating . . .

There is already so much that is unconstitutional about our government and our laws that this would scarcely be a hiccup. The constitution became irrelevant in 1865. You could go on and on about the founders rolling over in their graves about this particular constitutional violation, but the founders would call a great deal of our conventional and accepted legislative framework tyrannical or treasonous.

We presently only use our constitution when it is convenient.

It would take an inconceivable coordination of circumstances to take us back to a republic that honored the constitution. The first one would be to reverse the secularization of the American culture. The republic was suitable for governing God-fearing people, but no other.
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  #12  
Old 10-22-2008, 07:18 PM
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tstew tstew is offline
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Re: The Looming constitutional crisis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OP_Carl View Post
Fascinating . . .

There is already so much that is unconstitutional about our government and our laws that this would scarcely be a hiccup. The constitution became irrelevant in 1865. You could go on and on about the founders rolling over in their graves about this particular constitutional violation, but the founders would call a great deal of our conventional and accepted legislative framework tyrannical or treasonous.

We presently only use our constitution when it is convenient.

It would take an inconceivable coordination of circumstances to take us back to a republic that honored the constitution. The first one would be to reverse the secularization of the American culture. The republic was suitable for governing God-fearing people, but no other.
There are many who would point out that the republic and those "God-fearing people" had many substantial, glaring flaws that make it not the utopia that you seem to see it as.
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  #13  
Old 10-22-2008, 07:21 PM
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Digging4Truth Digging4Truth is offline
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Re: The Looming constitutional crisis.

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Originally Posted by tstew View Post
There are many who would point out that the republic and those "God-fearing people" had many substantial, glaring flaws that make it not the utopia that you seem to see it as.
Could you elucidate a little on any the statement you are making?
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  #14  
Old 10-22-2008, 07:24 PM
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Re: The Looming constitutional crisis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digging4Truth View Post
Could you elucidate a little on any the statement you are making?
I don't have much time now, but in a nutshell just that I don't see the early republic as the utopia that OP sees it as. I'm sure that it was great for some people, but not so much for more than half.
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  #15  
Old 10-22-2008, 07:25 PM
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Re: The Looming constitutional crisis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tstew View Post
I don't have much time now, but in a nutshell just that I don't see the early republic as the utopia that OP sees it as. I'm sure that it was great for some people, but not so much for more than half.
Okay... I will wait until you have sufficient time to elucidate.
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  #16  
Old 10-22-2008, 07:26 PM
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Re: The Looming constitutional crisis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digging4Truth View Post
Okay... I will wait until you have sufficient time to elucidate.
Okay, and I'll google "elucidate" so I'll know exactly what you're asking me to do

J/K
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  #17  
Old 10-22-2008, 07:29 PM
OP_Carl OP_Carl is offline
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Re: The Looming constitutional crisis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tstew View Post
I don't have much time now, but in a nutshell just that I don't see the early republic as the utopia that OP sees it as. I'm sure that it was great for some people, but not so much for more than half.
I understand what you are saying. However, built into it was great transformational capability. All but two nations abolished slavery via peaceful means. We'll never know what might have become of the American experiment now.

Imagine what the industrial revolution would have been like if 600,000 of America's best, brightest, strongest, and most idealistic hadn't been lying in their graves.
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Engineering solutions for theological problems.

Despite today's rising cost of living, it remains popular.

"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried." - Sir Winston Churchill

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Sir Winston Churchill

"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security." - Benjamin Franklin
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  #18  
Old 10-22-2008, 07:55 PM
All4one All4one is offline
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Re: The Looming constitutional crisis.

Maybe this is why Barak is goint to visit his gravely ill(broken hip)granmother in Hawaii. Perhaps he will be working on his birth certificate while there. If his grandmother is close to death why would he wait a few days before going?
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  #19  
Old 10-22-2008, 08:43 PM
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Re: The Looming constitutional crisis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OP_Carl View Post
I understand what you are saying. However, built into it was great transformational capability. All but two nations abolished slavery via peaceful means. We'll never know what might have become of the American experiment now.

Imagine what the industrial revolution would have been like if 600,000 of America's best, brightest, strongest, and most idealistic hadn't been lying in their graves.
Indeed...

And slavery was not the result of there being a republic. As a matter of fact slavery is more possible under a democracy than under a republic. The problem is in interpretation but the republic itself is the better form of government by far.
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  #20  
Old 10-22-2008, 09:15 PM
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Re: The Looming constitutional crisis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digging4Truth View Post
Indeed...

And slavery was not the result of there being a republic. As a matter of fact slavery is more possible under a democracy than under a republic. The problem is in interpretation but the republic itself is the better form of government by far.
I understand what you are saying, and there may be an argument there. My issue is that while I recognize that what we have now is broken and is heading in a bad direction, I don't think that the answer is a nostalgic look back with rose colored glasses at days gone by. In its totality, I would personally not wish to return to life in America pre-1865. There are many Americans who feel this way for obvious and varying reasons. When I do hear of this time romanticised as a time of God-fearing Americans who lived life in the true spirit of our constitution it just doesn't jive all that well with me.
I understand and appreciate that everybody's perspective is different and that they are as diverse as our own realities. I'm just stating my general opinion. I do often see people tend to look back and over-romanticise times past when confronted by tough current situations and I just don't see that as productive.
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