I can't help but think that today's fundamentalists would have interpreted this to mean that they should not consider trying to break the yoke of Britain's tyranny. However, the founders were also were well versed in English common law, studied natural law, Greek history, and the fall of the Roman empire. They were learned, reasonable men earnest in their pursuit of what is right and just. But they were not Holy-Ghost filled fundamentalist apostolics.
The one signer of the declaration of independence whose religious beliefs were closest to our own, Quaker William Penn, asked to step out of the room for the vote to go to war.
Quote:
But I don't believe that all authorities that exist were instituted by God. Some are evil. God didn't establish them.
So you do not believe that something that is not Godly and does not seek after God's will can be part of God's overall plan?
Quote:
They are not servants of God.
In this same sense, neither was Balaam's ass. And yet, he was, when the time called for it. The Bible says that the unrighteous store up treasure for the righteous. It says that we will reap where we have not sown. I see clear scriptural principles that bolster the concept that ALL things work together for the good of those that are called and chosen unto Him.
Quote:
And when an evil government punishes those who resist it, it is not doling out God's wrath. Just its own wrath. And doing what is good will not necessarily receive the government's approval.
And in the beginning, there was no bloodshed or death. Many things that some wish to attribute to external evil forces are simply manifestations of man's sinful nature inherited from the fall of Adam. Yet at the same time, Romans indicates that even the hearts of faraway heathen kings have God's law written on them. They have a conscience that could lead them to righteousness if they only dared to listen to it.
Quote:
In other words, Romans 13:1-7 is wrong, in nearly every detail.
This is quite an interesting position to take. I would remind you that the weapons of our warfare are not carnal.
__________________
Engineering solutions for theological problems.
Despite today's rising cost of living, it remains popular.
"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried." - Sir Winston Churchill
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Sir Winston Churchill
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security." - Benjamin Franklin
My parents pastor announced to the congregation that God had shown him who His will was for president.
__________________
When a newspaper posed the question, "What's Wrong with the World?" G. K. Chesterton reputedly wrote a brief letter in response: "Dear Sirs: I am. Sincerely Yours, G. K. Chesterton." That is the attitude of someone who has grasped the message of Jesus.
Timmy,
Am I misunderstanding you or are you saying the Bible is wrong, or at least Romans 13:1-7 is wrong?
Romans 13:1-7 is wrong. If it's correct, then every governing authority that there ever was was established by God. God put Adolf Hitler into power, Joseph Stalin, Benito Mussolini, Saddam Hussein, Nero, etc., and He will either put Obama or McCain into the presidency. He put every mayor of New York City into office, as well as every mayor of New Hope, TX. I have a hard time believing A) that He's so concerned about every single public office that He decides who should fill it, and B) that all of His choices were good ones.
Maybe Paul was writing TIC, or something. Considering the context and audience and all, maybe it was blatantly obvious to his readers that he wasn't writing literal truth. (Maybe a whole lot of the Bible is TIC!) And if so, what was his point? Was he winking and nudging, and really letting them know (without writing his own death warrant for treason) that it was fine to rebel or disobey, etc.? If so, what are we to learn from this scripture for today, if anything?
Quote:
I think there is a difference between what God allows and what's God will.
Could be. But Rom 13 doesn't allow for it. It says every one is established by God. Not that God has someone in mind, but sometimes allows man to have his way, even if it isn't God's preference. (But again, maybe it's TIC.)
Quote:
Though I completely disagree with it and hate some of what he has done and was has happened while he has been our president, God allowed Mr. Bush to be our President, much like God allowed Saul to be the first king of Israel.
Whoever wins, is God's will
Final answer?
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
My parents pastor announced to the congregation that God had shown him who His will was for president.
...and... you're just gonna leave everybody hanging like that??
__________________ http://endtimeobserver.blogspot.com
Daniel 12:3 And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars for ever.
I'm not so sure that God cares so much about the kingdom of this world.
I have a feeling that God is only concerned about His Kingdom.
Somehow Pontias Pilate ended up leader in Jesus day. I don't think God fretted himself about the process that led him there nor do I necessarily believe that God tried to stop him or tried to make sure he got there.
All things will serve his purpose in the end... but his purpose is that his children grow in the grace and knowledge of their Christ and find themselves able to inherit HIS kingdom.
Would that we put as much effort into discovering the Kingdom of God as we do effecting the kingdoms of man.
I pretty much agree with this.
at least to some degree. I believe in the matters of man's government, God allows us to chose our direction. his blessing howerver is often dictated on wheither we move toward or away from him as a nation.
I firmly believe that a nation can move toward or away from God no matter what party or type of government is in control.
In the case of America, we can move toward or away from God with either a republican or democrat in charge. The politics has little to do with it.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
My pastor last wed. night said something along the lines of...
The election is coming up and it is our duty to vote. We need to pray and ask God to direct us to vote for who will best represent Him.
Each of us must make up our own minds as to who that should be. That is all we can do.
I appreciated his wisdom and being pretty close to him, I know that he meant it just like that. there was no hidden message to vote for one candidate or another.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
He said he would let the church know what God told him on Nov. 5.
__________________
When a newspaper posed the question, "What's Wrong with the World?" G. K. Chesterton reputedly wrote a brief letter in response: "Dear Sirs: I am. Sincerely Yours, G. K. Chesterton." That is the attitude of someone who has grasped the message of Jesus.
Linear Mode
