Baptism, DOES IT REALLY WASH AWAY SIN??

[Steve Epley]

It comes from the same word but I do NOT think forgiveness and remission are the same. Saints in the OT had forgvieness but NOT remission.

[Scott Hutchinson]

There is no virtue in H20.When people repent they ask God to forgive them of their sins.
Of course Jesus Christ says baptism is essential,MARK:16:16.Baptism in Jesus Name is an act of obedience.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

There is no virtue in H20.When people repent they ask God to forgive them of their sins.
Of course Jesus Christ says baptism is essential,MARK:16:16.Baptism in Jesus Name is an act of obedience.

True in the water is where it happens the water itself is the where and not the what. The blood remits sins through faith and obedience.

[stmatthew]

Read Romans 6. Until the old man is buried during water baptism, he is not removed. Thus until baptism, we are still carrying the guilt and stain of sin. Col 2 explains this as well when it says:

Col 2:11 in whom also ye were circumcised with a circumcision not made with hands, in the putting off of the body of the sins of the flesh in the circumcision of the Christ,
Col 2:12 being buried with him in the baptism, in which also ye rose with [him] through the faith of the working of God, who did raise him out of the dead.
Col 2:13 And you -- being dead in the trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh -- He made alive together with him, having forgiven you all the trespasses,
Col 2:14 having blotted out the handwriting in the ordinances that is against us, that was contrary to us, and he hath taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross;
Col 2:15 having stripped the principalities and the authorities, he made a shew of them openly -- having triumphed over them in it.

(YLT)

[Ron]

Originally Posted by Sam

A former pastor of mine, Frank Curts, taught that the blood of Jesus was in His name and if His name was spoken at baptism, His name/blood washed away sins. He taught that there was a difference between forgiveness of sin and remission of sin. He taught that men cannot forgive sin but they can remit sin by baptizing someone in Jesus' name. This teaching was based on John 20:23 in the KJV.

Amen!

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Aquila

To remit and to forgive are the same thing.

A common Greek word is some times translated "forgive" and some times translated "remit" in our KJV. God's forgiveness includes not only pardon for guilt and release from the penalty for sin but also includes cleansing from sin. Based on the KJV, some have built a doctrine on the English words "forgiveness" and "remission" and have made them two different experiences.

A couple of examples are some times given to illustrate the difference between forgiveness and remission.

A person can owe a debt and can be "forgiven" the debt but that does not pay it off. It is only paid off if the money is "remitted" sent.

A person can spill something on a carpet and be forgiven for the act but the carpet is not clean until the stain is "removed."

Some Oneness folks teach that at repentance a person is forgiven of the guilt and penalty for sin but sin is not remitted or washed away or removed until baptism. There are actually quite a few Apostolic/Pentecostals who believe that way.

[WorldChanger]

I still like the scripture of Paul's conversion in Acts 22.

Act 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

I don't think this scripture would be in the Bible unless baptism doesn't wash away our sins.

God Bless

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by U376977

I know many are bored with this topic but I have never discussed it before.

That is where I am coming from. I am really having a problem when I hear people preach that the water will wash away our sins and many apostolics I know preach this way. But to me that discounts the blood. I think the blood fully effectual to remit sins and baptism cleanses the sin conscience. To say that the water remits sin, to me, cheapens the blood of Christ.

Does that make sense?

This is because many don't teach about the union of the water and blood. From Christ's side he gave birth to the church. When you look at the symbology of what came from his side was.. Water AND Blood. There is a reason why this is mentioned. It points to that which died and atoned and that which brings forth life are togethor. Notice in the old covenant water was used as well to bring about covenant. Water always has a very strong symbolic power by which God has used to complete faith and covenant. God has chosen this place as the place of "faithFULLNESS" .... the place in which your faith is completed or made perfect. Faith iis just mental assent unless one does what is compelled to bring it to it's completion. Obediance unto God's Word(faith) is always the very aspect of salvation. Faith alone does nothing.

[Tim Wiggins]

Originally Posted by Sam

Not to rehash old arguments, but there are Greek experts who say "for the remission/forgiveness of sins" means "in order to obtain remission/forgiveness of sins" and there are other Greek experts who say "for the remission/forgiveness of sins" means "because of the remission/forgiveness of sins." I don't know Greek so I can't be an authority on it but the authorities don't even agree among themselves.

"answer" can mean "response" so "answer of a good conscience" could also mean "the response of a good conscience" i.e. that a person is baptized because their conscience is already clear with God.

Then there are those who look to the original text and explain how some of the terms are plural and some are singular and when matched up together would render that in modern English as "Y'all repent for the remission/forgiveness of y'all's sins and let each one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ."

I have heard these arguments over the original Greek in Acts 2:38, and they all sound like Bill Clinton when he said, "it depends on what the definition of is, is."

First of all if it really means what they say, then why do none of the translations of the Bible have like it that? I have looked at MANY English translations, and 4 or 5 Spanish. They all agree. In other words, there are no translations that would support their opinion of the Greek.

Secondly, baptism for the remission sins in not only found in Acts 2:38. There are numerous Old Testament types going all the way back to the book of Exodus that give clear indication what baptism is for. How can we ignore that??? Also, what about Romans 6 and Acts 22:16???


TRW

[LUKE2447]

THough I think the remission and forgiveness from a definition standpoint are excellent, they fail in the sense of application. The same word is used in the Greek text over and over again there is not distinction of use. I don't believe the disciples used a variance.

Here is a very interesting question.

What is the parallel or common symbol of "the blood"??????????? I see people miss this all the time and I never see it taught. Even though it is known they never apply it to the debate of baptism.