It's a Generational Cultural Conflict

[scotty]

Originally Posted by RevBuddy

Pray for the "fourth" generation. It may not survive the conflict...

Actually I am praying the last days of the third generation kick start a nationwide revival, if not then I pray that is the first thing the fourth generation does. I'm afraid there is not much time left.

Excellent Post Rev.

[Apprehended]

Rev Buddy,

Certainly you have taken the time to think through some of the present issues in regard to our changing culture which is surely influenced by the changing culture at-large. There is a lot of merit in what you have said above.

Changing culture in the face of an un-changing God however, presents a present and continuing danger that has not been properly or adequately addressed by either of the previous generations. I don't think that we can expect anymore from this present generation of pentecostals. So along that same line of thought, I will extropolate your line of thought and just swing way out into the future, so far or so near, no one really knows and drop a speculation bomb that this present generation might consider nonsense.

First, this background. Someone said, "Let me give the people their music and I will give you the people." The sound of music of course is a language, an expression of the culture of the day. It is constantly evolving in our changing culture from generation to generation, giving expression of the soul of each. Music is of the mind giving an exact expression of the soul by which it can be seen whether that soul is vulgar, refined, or impassioned.

Then there is the spectacle of cultural conditioning everywhere we turn our heads. What was in vogue a generation ago is vulgar today, especially when you think of what is acceptable speech. Speech has been modified by sensitivity training that certain things are unacceptable in public that was quite common a generation or two ago. We are being conditioned ever so gradually and subtily, so much so that it is almost undetectable and certainly unnoticed by most of us.

Think how our culture at-large has come to accept the homosexual life-style both politically and socially. Why! I heard just yesterday that effective today that Vermont will become the fourth state to grant Civil Unions to homosexuals, while Mass. grants open marriages to them. Dare we to think that this thought conditioning is not worming its way into Pentecostal frame of thought reference? I think that we would be foolish to dismiss the very idea. To scoff at the idea while making ourselves comfortable with the ease of mind that our by-laws are against such practices is spiritual neglegence. Never mind how the bible reads. After all, if we listen to various interpretations from the homosexual community and especially the Gay-Apostolic churches (God help us) it is easy to see how perception can change.

So here is the bomb-shell. In light of your very well written article, just how long, or which generation will it be that will begin debating a resolution 3 or 4 on the floor of a UPCI Conference in regards to granting licenses to known homosexual preachers? Outrageous you say? I suppose that it must begin by recognizing that there are homosexuals that are ardent and stout, uncompromising believers in Acts 2:38 and who dress modestly, right? After all, isn't Acts 2:38 the ONE inviolable STANDARD, the ONE immutable STAR to which we all live and die by?

As repugnant as it sounds today in our generation and in our present Pentecostal culture, the idea of a homosexual claiming to have the Holy Ghost having been baptized in the name of Jesus continuing on in the church as a saint with his/her legally recognized "married" partner is not so far fetched in the face of changing culture. Interpretation of scripture and continuining resolutions will make adequate accomodations as the suffocating wrap of the constricting Python of cultural change continues. You are right Rev. Buddy. The cultural slide continues and shall continue from generation to generation, given the history of our movement. The question is, how far will it continue to slide within the ranks of the present day Apostolic movement in general and in the UPCI specifically?

There is a remedy that we have foolishly forgotten but seemingly unwilling to give pause to consider being so much wrapped up in our own ever-changing pentecostal culture so much influenced from generation to generation by exterior forces that we hardly recognize. But, that is a discussion for another thread.

God bless Rev. Buddy. Again, I enjoyed your well written and thoughtful article.

[staysharp]

Originally Posted by scotty

Actually I am praying the last days of the third generation kick start a nationwide revival, if not then I pray that is the first thing the fourth generation does. I'm afraid there is not much time left.

Excellent Post Rev.

What meaneth this? Not much time?

[scotty]

Originally Posted by staysharp

What meaneth this? Not much time?

Calm down!! No debate of doctrine or scripture intended.

Just my opinion,

I don't feel there is much time left, I have made the statement before "my daughter is 15, I doubt she will see graduation"

But thats just my opinion, I think we were discussing this on another thread though.

[staysharp]

Cultures have always changed throughout the years. What goes around comes around. Nothing new under the sun. God is the only constant. HE never changes, but people do.

The problem with typical Pentecost is they love their culture more than Christ.

Nothing wrong with tradition as long as it doesn't get in the way of sinners reaching Jesus.

Jesus told the Pharisees they shut up the kingdom of God by standing in the way of sinners.

The divide between the sinner and saint is so wide, the church has lost all cultural relevance.

By attempting to maintain their identity with each other, they lost it with Christ.

I am a third generation OP and have personally witnessed the religious spirit attached to the traditions of men and it "aint pretty", as a matter of fact, downright evil.

It's time for all Christians to get back to Jesus. He is the head of the church. It's time to stop loving culture more than the Christ.

What perplexes me is that we were told from the previous generation not to love the world. Truth be told, some were not a very good example. They loved the world more than they knew. Customs, traditions, identities, Rituals etc. these are all worldly too.

Its a sad day when you would rather relate to another Pentecostal in the grocery store than with the sinner on the street.

Are we ambassadors of Christ or of other Pentecostals?

[staysharp]

Originally Posted by scotty

Calm down!! No debate of doctrine or scripture intended.

Just my opinion,

I don't feel there is much time left, I have made the statement before "my daughter is 15, I doubt she will see graduation"

But thats just my opinion, I think we were discussing this on another thread though.

I didn't know I was excited. I was just asking a question. WIthout hijacking this thread, suffice to say, the worst thing you can do is rob your children of their future. God doesn't do it to us, don't do it to them. Telling them they don't have much time, is robbing them of their life.

Unless taken by death, your daughter will graduate, have kids, live a normal life, unless of course she is ruled by fear that tomorrow will never come.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by staysharp

I didn't know I was excited. I was just asking a question. WIthout hijacking this thread, suffice to say, the worst thing you can do is rob your children of their future. God doesn't do it to us, don't do it to them. Telling them they don't have much time, is robbing them of their life.

Unless taken by death, your daughter will graduate, have kids, live a normal life, unless of course she is ruled by fear that tomorrow will never come.

For the most part my witnessing follows the outline of "be ready always, for we know not the hour" Otherwise my daughter is as you are, excited! You see there is a balance to be had in believing that time is short and living a Godly life. The second requires us to do all things (school, job, family,etc.) to best of our ability so as to be a witness of Christ in us.

You can have both. If my child did not know or accept the Truth then I might handle it differently. But to keep the word of God and it's possible implications in our lives (truth) from them would rob them of more than just there life here.

JMO

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

Rev Buddy,

Certainly you have taken the time to think through some of the present issues in regard to our changing culture which is surely influenced by the changing culture at-large. There is a lot of merit in what you have said above.

Changing culture in the face of an un-changing God however, presents a present and continuing danger that has not been properly or adequately addressed by either of the previous generations. I don't think that we can expect anymore from this present generation of pentecostals. So along that same line of thought, I will extropolate your line of thought and just swing way out into the future, so far or so near, no one really knows and drop a speculation bomb that this present generation might consider nonsense.

First, this background. Someone said, "Let me give the people their music and I will give you the people." The sound of music of course is a language, an expression of the culture of the day. It is constantly evolving in our changing culture from generation to generation, giving expression of the soul of each. Music is of the mind giving an exact expression of the soul by which it can be seen whether that soul is vulgar, refined, or impassioned.

Then there is the spectacle of cultural conditioning everywhere we turn our heads. What was in vogue a generation ago is vulgar today, especially when you think of what is acceptable speech. Speech has been modified by sensitivity training that certain things are unacceptable in public that was quite common a generation or two ago. We are being conditioned ever so gradually and subtily, so much so that it is almost undetectable and certainly unnoticed by most of us.

Think how our culture at-large has come to accept the homosexual life-style both politically and socially. Why! I heard just yesterday that effective today that Vermont will become the fourth state to grant Civil Unions to homosexuals, while Mass. grants open marriages to them. Dare we to think that this thought conditioning is not worming its way into Pentecostal frame of thought reference? I think that we would be foolish to dismiss the very idea. To scoff at the idea while making ourselves comfortable with the ease of mind that our by-laws are against such practices is spiritual neglegence. Never mind how the bible reads. After all, if we listen to various interpretations from the homosexual community and especially the Gay-Apostolic churches (God help us) it is easy to see how perception can change.

So here is the bomb-shell. In light of your very well written article, just how long, or which generation will it be that will begin debating a resolution 3 or 4 on the floor of a UPCI Conference in regards to granting licenses to known homosexual preachers? Outrageous you say? I suppose that it must begin by recognizing that there are homosexuals that are ardent and stout, uncompromising believers in Acts 2:38 and who dress modestly, right? After all, isn't Acts 2:38 the ONE inviolable STANDARD, the ONE immutable STAR to which we all live and die by?

As repugnant as it sounds today in our generation and in our present Pentecostal culture, the idea of a homosexual claiming to have the Holy Ghost having been baptized in the name of Jesus continuing on in the church as a saint with his/her legally recognized "married" partner is not so far fetched in the face of changing culture. Interpretation of scripture and continuining resolutions will make adequate accomodations as the suffocating wrap of the constricting Python of cultural change continues. You are right Rev. Buddy. The cultural slide continues and shall continue from generation to generation, given the history of our movement. The question is, how far will it continue to slide within the ranks of the present day Apostolic movement in general and in the UPCI specifically?

There is a remedy that we have foolishly forgotten but seemingly unwilling to give pause to consider being so much wrapped up in our own ever-changing pentecostal culture so much influenced from generation to generation by exterior forces that we hardly recognize. But, that is a discussion for another thread.

God bless Rev. Buddy. Again, I enjoyed your well written and thoughtful article.

I do not think it is a stretch to imagine homo preachers we have twice marrried preachers that was once a no no!

[scotty]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I do not think it is a stretch to imagine homo preachers we have twice marrried preachers that was once a no no!

Not a stretch at all , there is a "Pentecostal" off shoot that has broken away and embraced homosexuality.

[Apprehended]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I do not think it is a stretch to imagine homo preachers we have twice marrried preachers that was once a no no!

Your remark underscores my very point.

I remember a time in Pentecost UPCI and the AOG that double marriage was such an anathma that the very thought of placing such men in ministry would have been the most unthinable thing you could have imagined at the time. Today, I can recount a great number of UPCI preachers, yea Pastors too that have two or more lving wives. If the first generation of Pentecostals could come back to see what was going on within our ranks, they would rather go back to their graves than to witness what they see. This might be hard to believe but it is my opinion that the AOG is more resistant to double marriages within the ministry than is the UPCI.

So, would you care to guess how long it will be, or what future generation of UPCI folks will be debating licensing homo preachers into the ministry?