1> Did the Tulsa 6 have a right to start WPF ?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Dan'D

Questions:

1> Did the Tulsa 6 have a right to start WPF ?
2> How should they had done it?

1> Without a doubt, in my mind at least. Freedom of association is a right that patriots have given their lives to defend.

2> They should not have used the UPC mailing list. To purchase a license for the list for one purpose - and sign that you agree to the terms; and then to use it in violation of those terms shows a bad spirit to me. I know that these men are not answerable to me, but they could have found a way to communicate with just as much effectiveness and avoided the ethics charges.

Also, they really should have left the org before they started to recruit. They had agreed that they wouldn't divide the group in this fashion when they joined. This represents another ethical problem.

[Rev]

Originally Posted by pelathais

1> Without a doubt, in my mind at least. Freedom of association is a right that patriots have given their lives to defend.

2> They should not have used the UPC mailing list. To purchase a license for the list for one purpose - and sign that you agree to the terms; and then to use it in violation of those terms shows a bad spirit to me. I know that these men are not answerable to me, but they could have found a way to communicate with just as much effectiveness and avoided the ethics charges.

Also, they really should have left the org before they started to recruit. They had agreed that they wouldn't divide the group in this fashion when they joined. This represents another ethical problem.

My My where are those mules?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Dan'D

Quietly - If you are going to do something do it. There are a lot of others that will benefit from it.

Dan'D

This reflects a pattern of behavior that is is rebellious and fraught with peril. Could I have a mailing list for the members of your local assembly? I would like to send each of them a pamphlet entitled "Freedom from Tithing." I think a lot of others will benefit from it.

[Dan'D]

Originally Posted by pelathais

1> Without a doubt, in my mind at least. Freedom of association is a right that patriots have given their lives to defend.

2> They should not have used the UPC mailing list. To purchase a license for the list for one purpose - and sign that you agree to the terms; and then to use it in violation of those terms shows a bad spirit to me. I know that these men are not answerable to me, but they could have found a way to communicate with just as much effectiveness and avoided the ethics charges.

Also, they really should have left the org before they started to recruit. They had agreed that they wouldn't divide the group in this fashion when they joined. This represents another ethical problem.

Are you sure that they purchase the list from UPC. That was not what I understood.

Dan'D

I feel that men that started WPF had the right, if the organization that you have been a part of wants to leave its foundation and turn to the world, then you don't need to support it... I respect and honor the men that started this new fellowship, I praise God that there is still those that hold to the old paths...
I still attend a UPC, in some ways keeps the old paths and others its allowing more than it did even 5 yrs ago, gotta catch up with the time..
We need an organization that will hold to the old paths, not modernize everything...
We need Revival from GOd............

[Dan'D]

Originally Posted by Dan'D

Are you sure that they purchase the list from UPC. That was not what I understood.

Dan'D

Sorry I did not finish my thought

I understood that there list was of there (Tulsa 6) own Accumulation.

Dan'D

[Dan'D]

Originally Posted by salvadorifam

I feel that men that started WPF had the right, if the organization that you have been a part of wants to leave its foundation and turn to the world, then you don't need to support it... I respect and honor the men that started this new fellowship, I praise God that there is still those that hold to the old paths...
I still attend a UPC, in some ways keeps the old paths and others its allowing more than it did even 5 yrs ago, gotta catch up with the time..
My pastor preached about the Landmarks, and the UPC is getting rid of those landmarks, whats going to happen if the Lord tarries and all the oldtimers are gone, whats going to be of the UPC??? I praise GOd I am not UPC, i am apostolic and still believe in the old time way...

Amen
Dan'D

[KarenJo]

Yes, the men that left have a right to do whatever they want to.

But get over the “WE ARE MORE HOLY THEN YOU” attitude….

I DONT think they have the right to pull out an entire church out unless that church body is in agreement with it. A wise man of God is not a dictator with regards to the people he is leading.

When you look at the natural progression of technology and fashion, shouldn’t these things be looked at in balance?

We preached against radio – but now it’s ok?
We preached against the width of the neck-tie – but now men wear what’s in fashion?
We preached against electronic instruments in the church – now we have many.
We preached against wearing red – now?

We preached against ….The list goes on and on.

The list of things that may have been wrong so many years ago are not considered wrong any more. Is it because the entire world is getting loose or is it natural progression? Do we go back to the days when we didn’t have air condition in the church? Do we go back to no radios or newspapers? Could it be that the progression of technology is just that, progression? What happens when the TV and Computer, etc. become one?

We can still have standards and we can draw the line with what comes into our home. So, are a TV Screen and a Computer Screen really different? No!

What I see is that the WPF will be just like the UPC in regards to the level of convictions that will be represented. You will have the Liberal, the Conservative and the Middle of the Road. So what will change? Nothing!

No, Bro. Haney will not answer to God for you and he has never told anyone how to run their church. He has family and friends who are both liberal and conservative.

So, maybe we should only walk everywhere, raise our own food and make our own clothes. We don’t need to use any form of technology, and make sure you get rid of your computers and throw out the cell phones. Or, if you are a mature child of God, you can manage what your eyes see and what your ears hear. Not everything in this world is a sin. But it can be if we use it the wrong way…We need BALANCE.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by R.D. Foster

1st, new independents have all kinds of places to take their people. When the UPC formed this was not true. Most meetings by individual churches attract a larger group than UPC events.

?

Originally Posted by R.D. Foster

2nd, The UPC govt is out of date with what God is doing today. The WPF will become more of a facilitator without salaries or authority. It will attract more conservative minded people.

Ironically, it was the "conservative minded people" who tended to resist changes in the structure of the UPC while forcing through their program of changes to the Articles of Faith.

Originally Posted by R.D. Foster

3rd, The UPC will change or a third group will form similar to the WPF govt that will attract more liberal minded people.

4th, The kingdom of God will move forward.

Yes, the Kingdom of God seems to resist control. It is moving forward in your community as well, though you may have to step outside your local church to see it.

Originally Posted by R.D. Foster

5th, the AMF was the pioneer group that made the mistakes that other groups will be wise not to follow.

The brawling fist fights and the bidding for the "right" to burn or tear up a UPC card. Your bar for "wisdom" is set pretty low.

Originally Posted by R.D. Foster

6th, before the WPF formed the Tulsa 6 were some of the most respected and ethical people out there. That has not changed.

Again, step out and look around.

Originally Posted by R.D. Foster

7th, lost souls no nothing about these things,so, let's have revival.

Can I ask you an honest question? Do you consider the ignorance that "lost souls" may have of the political landscape that they are about to enter a good thing?

What happens when they learn the things that you don't want them to know?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Dan'D

Are you sure that they purchase the list from UPC. That was not what I understood.

Dan'D

A poster here sent an email to the info at wpf email address and asked about that. The response they got back from "info" was that they used the list that they had purchased for "another conference" for the Tulsa Summit as well.