Reconcile this

[Amanah]

Bro coksiw

Sounds like you are saying:

OT saints had Holy Ghost version 1.0
NT saints have Holy Ghost version 2.0

Both versions will get you resurrected to immortality via the Cross

Is this a reasonable summary?

[Esaias]

The OT expectation for the Messianic Age was that the Spirit would be available to ALL of Israel, not just selected individuals. That was not fulfilled until after the glorification of Christ. Now the Spirit is available to the whole congregation of the Lord.

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Bro coksiw

Sounds like you are saying:

OT saints had Holy Ghost version 1.0
NT saints have Holy Ghost version 2.0

Both versions will get you resurrected to immortality via the Cross

Is this a reasonable summary?

Before the ascension :

* Mosaic covenant did not provide for the Spirit to those that would join the covenant
* The Spirit was not coming upon the Israel as a whole, as a covenant group.
* The Spirit was available to individuals, and they would prophesy

After the ascension:

* The Christ covenant provides for the Spirit to all that join the covenant
* The Spirit is coming upon all the church as a covenant group, and they speak in tongues
* The Spirit also comes with greater grace not seen in the OT, the same grace of God seen in Jesus: the law came through Moses, but the grace through Jesus. Jesus was seen full of grace and truth.

Yes, the OT saints that walked with God needed the Spirit was well, and was necessary to walk right, and will raise them up in the resurrection.

There are plenty of evidence in the Bible about this. Yet, many err when the stumble with John's passage. Then, with that passage misunderstood, they overturn the entire Biblical abundant evidence that say otherwise. The issue is that many don't go further to understand John's style of writing, which was very terse as you can see in many of his writings, which was done in order to impress force in the statements. "The Spirit was not yet" is not in an absolute sense, but in a specific sense. He details what that means in further passages. I described this in my posts.

[Amanah]

People have always been saved by grace through faith, right? Genesis 6:8, Genesis 15:6, Galatians 3:6-8, Ephesians 2:8, Hebrews 11.

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by Amanah

People have always been saved by grace through faith, right? Genesis 6:8, Genesis 15:6, Galatians 3:6-8, Ephesians 2:8, Hebrews 11.

In that sense yes. They always needed the grace of God in combination with their obedient faith to be accounted for the future salvation coming with Christ.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The OT expectation for the Messianic Age was that the Spirit would be available to ALL of Israel, not just selected individuals. That was not fulfilled until after the glorification of Christ. Now the Spirit is available to the whole congregation of the Lord.

Just in case anyone missed this post?

I’ll re post it

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Just in case anyone missed this post?

I’ll re post it

Originally Posted by Esaias:
"The OT expectation for the Messianic Age was that the Spirit would be available to ALL of Israel, not just selected individuals. That was not fulfilled until after the glorification of Christ. Now the Spirit is available to the whole congregation of the Lord."


Yes! Acts 2:1-21 quoting Joel 2:28-32

This is that!


Joel 2:28-32 KJV
28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon ALL flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come.
32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Originally Posted by Esaias:
"The OT expectation for the Messianic Age was that the Spirit would be available to ALL of Israel, not just selected individuals. That was not fulfilled until after the glorification of Christ. Now the Spirit is available to the whole congregation of the Lord."


Yes! Acts 2:1-21 quoting Joel 2:28-32

This is that!


Joel 2:28-32 KJV
28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon ALL flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come.
32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call.

Doesn’t get any easier than that.

[coksiw]

What was the criteria for individuals to get it before the new covenant?

[Amanah]

Old Testament:

In the Old Testament, the Holy Spirit's presence was intermittent and selective. The Spirit would "come upon" or "clothe" specific individuals for specific tasks or periods:

* Judges (e.g., Othniel, Gideon, Samson) - Judges 3:10, 6:34, 14:6
* Kings (e.g., Saul, David) - 1 Samuel 10:10, 16:13
* Prophets (e.g., Isaiah, Ezekiel) - Isaiah 61:1, Ezekiel 2:2

This was often associated with empowerment for leadership, wisdom, or prophetic ministry.

New Testament:

In the New Testament, the Holy Spirit's presence becomes universal:

* Joel's prophecy (Acts 2:17-21) - Peter quotes Joel, emphasizing the Spirit's outpouring on "all flesh" (Joel 2:28-32).
* Jesus' promise (John 14:16-17, 20) - The Spirit would indwell believers forever.