Random Questions Thread

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Amanah

I'm truly baffled that there are women who don't automatically understand that a low cut top is immodest. And the preacher doesn't seem to know how to make it plain because he only preaches chapter and verse and people are left to, for lack of better terminology, flesh out the meaning for themselves.

Even the heathens know that showing cleavage is considered "edgy" and provocative and immodest.

God gave Adam and Eve chitons (kutoneth, tunics) to cover their nakedness. a chiton is a garment that hangs from the shoulders and goes to about the knees. IE a big large shirt. So uncovering that area is basically showing nakedness, which is generally not to be done in public, it is considered (Biblically) shameful and bad taste. The garment God designed for covering nakedness shows us pretty clearly what needs to be covered, as far as God is concerned.

One other thing -

Drink waters out of thine own cistern, and running waters out of thine own well. Let thy fountains be dispersed abroad, and rivers of waters in the streets. Let them be only thine own, and not strangers' with thee. Let thy fountain be blessed: and rejoice with the wife of thy youth. Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love.
(Pro 5:15-19)

The idea here is that a woman's breasts are for her husband, and thus not for anyone else. And if she is not married then they aren't for anyone UNTIL and UNLESS she is married. (Of course, a nursing baby is not involved in the discussion.) So, putting them on display, or "hinting" at them by showing a "little bit" is basically not much different than whoredom.

Of course, people these days can't even figure out which bathroom they are supposed to use, so good luck explaining common sense to the masses.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Random questions:

Is the prophetic ministry of Ephesians 4:11
the same as the ability to prophesy in 1 Corinthians 12:10?

No. Or at least, not necessarily.

I have been able to identify five distinct kinds of prophets in the New Testament:

1.) Prophet as Preacher/Teacher:

Acts 13:1 (ESV),

1 Now there were in the church at Antioch prophets and teachers, Barnabas, Simeon who was called Niger,[a] Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen a lifelong friend of Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.

2.) Prophet as Seer

Acts 11:28 (ESV),

28 And one of them named Agabus stood up and foretold by the Spirit that there would be a great famine over all the world (this took place in the days of Claudius).

Acts 21:9-11 (ESV),

9 He had four unmarried daughters, who prophesied. 10 While we were staying for many days, a prophet named Agabus came down from Judea. 11 And coming to us, he took Paul's belt and bound his own feet and hands and said, “Thus says the Holy Spirit, ‘This is how the Jews at Jerusalem will bind the man who owns this belt and deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.’”

3.) Prophet as Itinerant Minister

Acts 15:32-33 (ESV),

32 And Judas and Silas, who were themselves prophets, encouraged and strengthened the brothers with many words. 33 And after they had spent some time, they were sent off in peace by the brothers to those who had sent them.

4.) Prophet as Exposer of Secret Sin

Acts 5:1-11 (ESV),

1 But a man named Ananias, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property, 2 and with his wife's knowledge he kept back for himself some of the proceeds and brought only a part of it and laid it at the apostles' feet. 3 But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back for yourself part of the proceeds of the land? 4 While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? Why is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to man but to God.” 5 When Ananias heard these words, he fell down and breathed his last. And great fear came upon all who heard of it. 6 The young men rose and wrapped him up and carried him out and buried him.

7 After an interval of about three hours his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8 And Peter said to her, “Tell me whether you[a] sold the land for so much.” And she said, “Yes, for so much.” 9 But Peter said to her, “How is it that you have agreed together to test the Spirit of the Lord? Behold, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out.” 10 Immediately she fell down at his feet and breathed her last. When the young men came in they found her dead, and they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. 11 And great fear came upon the whole church and upon all who heard of these things.

Acts 13:9-11 (ESV),

9 But Saul, who was also called Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked intently at him 10 and said, “You son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, full of all deceit and villainy, will you not stop making crooked the straight paths of the Lord? 11 And now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon you, and you will be blind and unable to see the sun for a time.” Immediately mist and darkness fell upon him, and he went about seeking people to lead him by the hand.

5.) Prophet as Edifier, Comforter, Encourager

1 Corinthians 14:3 (ESV),

3 On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation.

As you can see, there is overlap between the five distinct forms of prophetic ministry. Clear examples of Biblical charismata are obviously present as well.

It may be the case that the last form mentioned above, would mean a person who is used by God in the gifts of the Spirit, such as you mentioned in the original post, could be considered a prophet.

But generally, I don't think that's the case. Women, per Paul, are allowed to prophesy, provided they are properly covered, according to 1 Corinthians 14, so they have the right to build up, console, and encourage the members of the church, even when men are present.

However, the gifts of grace listed in Ephesians 4 seem to be official ministries of the Church Body. That being the case, while not impossible, I find it rather unlikely that you would have a woman "Prophet" the same as you would have men who are Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors, and Teachers.

There are, at least, no NT examples of such.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Random questions:

Is humility the opposite of pride?
Can pride be overcome by esteeming others as better than yourself
Preferring and serving others?
Or is pride best overcome through prayer and fasting?

I think humility is a subset of the opposite of pride. To me, love is the opposite of pride, and humility is one aspect of it.

Pride is overcome through repentance and the power of the Holy Spirit to make someone as much like Christ as can be had in this life.

Esteeming others, preferring others, serving others, is evidence of that repentance and power of the Holy Spirit. They are works of love for the Body of Christ, and people in general.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Amanah

I need help with a question about modesty when dealing with people who will only accept chapter and verse.

Using only scripture, please prove that showing cleavage is immodest.

1 Timothy 2:9 (ESV),

9 likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire

See the Greek word for "apparel":

καταστολῇ - katastolē

This word is hapax legomena to 1 Timothy 2:9, but it's not hard to translate. It means a garment let down, i.e. a dress.

See: https://biblehub.com/greek/2689.htm

It derives from: καταστέλλω - katastelló, which means "to put or keep down one who is roused or incensed, to repress, restrain, appease, quiet", at least according to Thayer.

See: https://biblehub.com/greek/2687.htm

And since, cleavage can clearly arouse sexual lust, and perhaps incense others, it would seem that a modest dress, that properly covers the bosom is in order.

Furthermore, Paul wrote that such a dress should be modest and respectable.

Modest is from the Greek word αἰδοῦς - aidous, a compound from the Greek negative particle and οἶδα - eidó, meaning to see with the eyes. As such, modest here means something like shame, that is, some thing or part of the body that a woman ought to be ashamed of, if seen by others. The idea of uncovering someone's nakedness comes to mind.

See: https://biblehub.com/greek/127.htm

Respectable is from the Greek word κοσμίῳ - kosmiō, meaning well ordered, decorous, good behavior, etc.

See: https://biblehub.com/greek/2887.htm

Things that are considered respectable, i.e. well-ordered, decorous, and etc. are subjective and a matter of opinion, but and since the concept here is augmented by the ideas of shame and the type of garment described, it seems pretty clear that cleavage bearing clothing wouldn't be considered respectable by almost any definition of the word.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Amanah

I'm truly baffled that there are women who don't automatically understand that a low cut top is immodest. And the preacher doesn't seem to know how to make it plain because he only preaches chapter and verse and people are left to, for lack of better terminology, flesh out the meaning for themselves.

All chapter and verse must by definition, have interpretation, with real-world applications, or understanding is unfruitful and proper, Biblical praxis is impossible.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

I think humility is a subset of the opposite of pride. To me, love is the opposite of pride, and humility is one aspect of it.

Pride is overcome through repentance and the power of the Holy Spirit to make someone as much like Christ as can be had in this life.

Esteeming others, preferring others, serving others, is evidence of that repentance and power of the Holy Spirit. They are works of love for the Body of Christ, and people in general.

Thank you for all your responses!

[shag]

Luke 1:32-33 as it relates to 2 Samuel 7:12-16.

The question:
Are the Samuel passages solely speaking of Jesus?



And is vs 13 the same house as 1 Peter 2:5?