End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

[Abiding Now]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Well, my friend...I am glad thousands of little Brazilians listened to me as I taught about Jesus under trees, in open yards, in the marlet places, on street corners and wherever...and today many of those same men that once sat in pagan darkness pastor large churches...they don't seem to mind that I told them about the Savior and He saved them...

Blessings to you...at least you said you would not walk out...maybe I will catch you by surprize sometime....lol....

Don't fear I promise not to kick my leg or beat on the pulpit...ha....I usually just sit on the altar bench and tell about Brazil...

In that case, I really wouldn't have a problem listening to you and I do admire what God has done for Bro. Alvear and you.

PS It would be a surprise.

[Sister Alvear]

Before you make a decision you should try to get the tapes on Women in Ministry by Goden MaGree...awesome things he has to say...I do not have them but listened to them years ago as part of a class I was taking...Also you may get a good book from Dr. John Scheel on Women in the Ministry. Brother Scheel got his degree from Oxford University and defended as his thesis women in the ministry...

[Sister Alvear]

Originally Posted by Abiding Now

In that case, I really wouldn't have a problem listening to you and I do admire what God has done for Bro. Alvear and you.

PS It would be a surprise.

[Sister Alvear]

Thank the Lord I do not have to do what I once did...I am very thankful for my leadership...very grateful....however there was a time... a long time ago....Just thinking of it has brought tears to my eys this morning...Let me say once again I am very thankful for our good leadership...

[Sister Alvear]

the Jews were living according to the Talmud, not according to the Old Testament Law. Remember the Talmud contains regulations and traditions had had become more important than the Old Testament book of the Law. In the..“Ten Curses of Eve”..listed in the Babylonian Talmud, the sixth is summarized this way: “He shall rule over thee,” the wife being in total submission and subjugation, since the wife is the personal property of the husband. When he quotes their statement back to them in verses 34 and 35, which makes reference to the law, he is attempting to show them that they are still living and operating by the oral law of the Jews or Jewish traditions.

The great German lexicographer, Schleusner, in his Greek-Latin Lexicon, declares the expression..“as also saith the law”..refers to the Oral Law of the Jews. Here are his words:..“The oral laws of the Jews or Jewish traditions . . . in the Old Testament no precept concerning the matter exists,”..and he cites Vitringa as showing that it was “forbidden by Jewish traditions for women to speak in the synagogue.”
Judaism commingled with paganism born in the days of mingling which place a badge of inferiority and servility upon women.
Jesus did what no other religious man would do...I am not going to write more on this right now as have other things to do however study the life of Jesus and his actions and dealings with women...

[rdp]

LOL - Still trying to soothe your violated conscience eh' Sis. Alvear? No, I am not "worried" about ANYTHING you are still copy-pasting - your material has been categorically shown to be completely false over & over & over & over ad nauseum.


At this point you are only attempting to have the last say in order to feign the high ground of "victory" - & in the process are looking foolish. You have dodged the crystal-clear ramifications of I Timothy 2:11-3.15 for almost 200 pp. now !


Further, you have hurt yourself on this thread due to your stubborn defiance to God's Word - & I have been told so personally by other pastors & Elders. Personally, I won't give another red-cent to the error you are so willfully pedaling in Brazil (& I also know others who feel the same way).


*Sigh* - No Sis. Alvear - Paul was NOT quoting the letter from the Corinthians to him - & it is an absurd argument to say he was. In fact, we even took the time to demonstrate this from the text itself earlier in the thread - very meticulously. But, hey, just keep ignoring the grammar & context of the texts & keep posting your error - I'll be back later to demonstrate your error once again !


Acts 8 does "NOT SAY" - that "women were preaching" - it says the women were in prison . And, of course, you've been shown this over & over & over also - LOL.



You are simply willfully ignorant & "sweetly rebellious" to God's Word ! Back a little later to continue the party!

[RJR]

Originally Posted by Roxanne Murphy

Yes my friend, read your own passage that you keep referencing. It says THE MAN, one particular individual, her head. Now unless you have decided that it is okay for you to make a plural out of a singular (as you undoubtedly diss trinitarians for doing the same with the Godhead), you are simply deficit in basic knowledge of one as opposed to a group.

The woman is not to usurp authority over the man, and 1 Corinthians 11 tells us that this man is her husband. When Paul told the same Corinthian church this (Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. 1 Corinthians 14:34 KJV) three chapters later, he was again referencing the marriage relationship. The law never commanded all women to be subject to all men; it commanded the woman to be in obedience to her head (husband if married, her father if she was unmarried).

Also, according to the law of Moses, only one man had the authority to validate or nullify a woman's vow: husband if married and father if unmarried.

If a woman also vow a vow unto the Lord, and bind herself by a bond, being in her father's house in her youth; And her father hear her vow, and her bond wherewith she hath bound her soul, and her father shall hold his peace at her: then all her vows shall stand, and every bond wherewith she hath bound her soul shall stand. But if her father disallow her in the day that he heareth; not any of her vows, or of her bonds wherewith she hath bound her soul, shall stand: and the Lord shall forgive her, because her father disallowed her. And if she had at all an husband, when she vowed, or uttered ought out of her lips, wherewith she bound her soul; And her husband heard it, and held his peace at her in the day that he heard it: then her vows shall stand, and her bonds wherewith she bound her soul shall stand. But if her husband disallowed her on the day that he heard it; then he shall make her vow which she vowed, and that which she uttered with her lips, wherewith she bound her soul, of none effect: and the Lord shall forgive her. But every vow of a widow, and of her that is divorced, wherewith they have bound their souls, shall stand against her. Every vow, and every binding oath to afflict the soul, her husband may establish it, or her husband may make it void. These are the statutes, which the Lord commanded Moses, between a man and his wife, between the father and his daughter, being yet in her youth in her father's house. (Numbers 30:3-9, 13, 16 KJV)

Take note, according to the law: only a husband or father is acknowledges as head over a woman. Not a priest, not even the high priest. And for a divorced or widowed woman, she did not have a man as head over her, she was on her own. (This completely destroys the crazy things I have heard at times from preachers who tell single women in their churches that the pastor is their spiritual head, and even more damaging, the preachers who tell women with unsaved husbands that they should obey their pastor rather than their husbands, especially when it comes to something like tithing/money or participation in a church activity)

You really should read your entire Bible. You would learn a lot, but then again, it might mess up your preconceived theologies.

So according to Roxanne, THE woman cannot speak in the home according to 1 Tim 2. She must learn in silence with all subjection, no questions to be asked as at home according to Roxannes position of 1 Tim 2:12, even though she is instructed to ask her husband at home, 1 Cor 14:35.

Where is she commanded to be in silence specifically? In the home...NO! She is specifically commanded to be in silence IN THE CHURCH, for it is NOT PERMITTED for her to speak, for it is a shame. I am sorry Roxanne, you cannot get around the specific injunctions in these passages.

Robertson's Word Studies, says of 1 Tim 2:12 that even though in modern times women teaches Sunday School classes, she is not permitted to speak "in a public meeting." It is amazing that Vincent's, Robertson's and many others when giving Word studies on 1 Tim 2:12 parallel it to 1 Cor. 14:35.

Roxanne, it was Prophets, Apostles, and Jesus' teachings that God chose to build His church upon, not a woman among them. Not one woman among all the OT priesthood. Not one instruction as to the qualifications of a female deacon or bishop. Deborah and Huldah was not involved in tabernacle or temple priesthood.

I could not agree more that a woman is under her head, her husband. She is not to exercise authority over him. I know a single girl at home is also under her father. However, to imply that both husband and wife do not have anyone over them is to deny Heb. 13:7, 13, 24. 1 Thes. 5:12, 1 Tim 5:17, 1 Pet 5:2, Acts 20:28. By the way, a woman would not qualify for any of these offices that are given the oversight. According to your position, a woman cannot exercise authority over her husband but she could someone else's husband. How consistent!?

I would recommend you read the entire Bible it would really inform you, but will contradict your preconceived ideas.

[RJR]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Before you make a decision you should try to get the tapes on Women in Ministry by Goden MaGree...awesome things he has to say...I do not have them but listened to them years ago as part of a class I was taking...Also you may get a good book from Dr. John Scheel on Women in the Ministry. Brother Scheel got his degree from Oxford University and defended as his thesis women in the ministry...

I heard one of Dr. Sheel's debates on women preachers, he did not fare well.

[RJR]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

We know the Corinthian Christians had written Paul a letter (7:1) and that in that letter a number of issues were raised that Paul needed to address .In Paul’s letter, as he addressed a question or issue that had been raised by the Corinthians in their letter to him, sometimes he simply referred to the subject in question, and then responded to it, as in the following examples:1:11 – “For it was declared to me about you, my brethren, by the ones of Chloe, that there are strifes among you ...”7:1 – Paul says, “now concerning the things about which you wrote . . .”7:25 – “now concerning virgins . . .”8:1

“now concerning things sacrificed to idols . . .”9:1 – he asks questions to bring up the next subject, “Am I not free?” “Am I not an apostle?,” etc. He is obviously referring to their questions regarding his being called an apostle.12:1 – “now concerning spiritual gifts . . .”Other times Paul repeated the Corinthian’s erroneous statements and then proceeded to correct, or bring balance to, their thinking. 6:12 – Paul seems to be quoting them:..“All things are lawful for me,”..then he counters with..“but all things are not profitable.”..

SEEMS is quite the conjecture, the fact remains the instructions given was not from a letter from the Corinthians but from the inspiration of the HG through the Apostle.

1Co 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
1Co 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
1Co 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
1Co 14:36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
1Co 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
1Co 14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
1Co 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
1Co 14:40 Let all things be done decently and in order.

[RJR]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Instead, those basing their view of women on the oral law did. Paul never required women to be silent and never called female speaking “lewd and filthy.” The Talmud was guilty of advocating both. This is further confirmed in verse 36 when Paul exclaims..“What! Did the Word of God originate with you?”..The..“What!”..indicates that Paul is not in harmony with what was stated by others from the Talmud in vv.34-35...Thayer’s Lexicon notes that the..“What”..is a disjunctive conjunction..“before a sentence contrary to the one just preceding, to indicate that if one be denied or refuted the other must stand.”

Paul did too, he called it a shame, it is as shameful as a man having long hair, it is just as spiritually unnatural. It goes back to the order of creation, it also brings into view the woman being in transgression, it also speaks of the woman being the weaker vessel.

1Co 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Shame: (aischron) base, dishonourable

1Co 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

1Pe 3:7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.