Random Questions Thread

[Amanah]

Here are scriptures showing Paul's identities:

Identifying as a Jew

* Acts 21:39 - "I am a Jew, from Tarsus in Cilicia, a citizen of no ordinary city..."
* Acts 22:3 - "...I am a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia..."

Identifying as a Spiritual Jew

* Romans 2:28-29 - "For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly...but he is a Jew who is one inwardly."
* Philippians 3:3 - "For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit..."

Identifying as an Israelite

* Romans 11:1 - "I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin."
* 2 Corinthians 11:22 - "Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I."

Paul's identities:

- Biological: Benjaminite Israelite
- Cultural: Jew
- Spiritual: Jew inwardly, part of spiritual Israel

[shag]

a “Spiritual Jew”?
Where did you get that?
I’m not sure I can agree



Spiritual Jews and non spiritual Jews?

https://biblehub.com/romans/2-28.htm

https://biblehub.com/romans/2-29.htm



I’m seeing true genuine Jews vs non true genuine(not real Jews)

[Amanah]

Romans 2:28-29 ESV
28 For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. 29 But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God.

Philippians 3:3 ESV
3 For we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh—

[shag]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Romans 2:28-29 ESV
28 For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. 29 But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God.

Philippians 3:3 ESV
3 For we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh—

Are you meaning that a “Spiritual Jew” is a (True) Jew? (the same thing?)
(So therefore a non spiritual Jew is not a true Jew)
What exactly is “by the Spirit”?
They had “heart circumcision” in the old as well, so werent they “Spiritual Jews in the old, and if they did not have spiritual circumcision of the heart, they weren’t actual Jews(since it’s about the heart(inward) circumcision?

And if Paul is explaining a “Spiritual Jew” vs a non spiritual Jew”, would the text simply say, “a spiritual Jew is one who…” but rather he’s defining between who is in fact a genuine true Jew, and who is not?


Please explain (how you are seeing “Spiritual Jew” as it relates to whether a person is a true Jew.)
Who is and who isn’t and why…

Alot of questions, but I think you follow what I’m trying to resolve, if that makes since what I’m asking….
Thank you Amanah

[Amanah]

Shag.
In the Old Testament to be in a covenant relationship with God required physical circumcision. The new covenant requires spiritual circumcision.

New Covenant circumcision refers to a spiritual circumcision that occurs through faith in Jesus Christ, as described in Romans 2:29 and Colossians 2:11-12. This spiritual circumcision is not physical, but rather a transformation of the heart, accomplished by the Holy Spirit (Hebrews 8:8-10, Acts 2).

In the Old Testament, physical circumcision was a sign of the covenant between God and Abraham's descendants. However, with the coming of Jesus Christ, the significance of circumcision shifted from physical to spiritual. Jesus taught that true circumcision is of the heart, not just the flesh (Deuteronomy 10:16, Jeremiah 4:4, Hebrews 8:8-10).

New Covenant Circumcision is:

*Spiritual Transformation: It involves a change of heart, where one's old nature is "cut away" and replaced with a new one in Christ (Colossians 2:11-12)

*Faith-Based: This circumcision occurs through faith in Jesus Christ, making it accessible to all who believe, regardless of physical descent (Romans 4:11-12).

*Baptismal: Baptism is tied to spiritual circumcision and the believer's union with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection (Romans 6:3-4, Colossians 2:12, Acts 2:38)

*The New Covenant circumcision is not a physical act, but a spiritual reality that occurs through faith and the work of the Holy Spirit.

So now true Jews are those who are in a covenant relationship with God, which in the new covenant means obeying the gospel, Acts 2:38.

[shag]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Shag.
In the Old Testament to be in a covenant relationship with God required physical circumcision. The new covenant requires spiritual circumcision.

New Covenant circumcision refers to a spiritual circumcision that occurs through faith in Jesus Christ, as described in Romans 2:29 and Colossians 2:11-12. This spiritual circumcision is not physical, but rather a transformation of the heart, accomplished by the Holy Spirit (Hebrews 8:8-10, Acts 2).

In the Old Testament, physical circumcision was a sign of the covenant between God and Abraham's descendants. However, with the coming of Jesus Christ, the significance of circumcision shifted from physical to spiritual. Jesus taught that true circumcision is of the heart, not just the flesh (Deuteronomy 10:16, Jeremiah 4:4, Hebrews 8:8-10).

New Covenant Circumcision is:

*Spiritual Transformation: It involves a change of heart, where one's old nature is "cut away" and replaced with a new one in Christ (Colossians 2:11-12)

*Faith-Based: This circumcision occurs through faith in Jesus Christ, making it accessible to all who believe, regardless of physical descent (Romans 4:11-12).

*Baptismal: Baptism is tied to spiritual circumcision and the believer's union with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection (Romans 6:3-4, Colossians 2:12, Acts 2:38)

*The New Covenant circumcision is not a physical act, but a spiritual reality that occurs through faith and the work of the Holy Spirit.

So now true Jews are those who are in a covenant relationship with God, which in the new covenant means obeying the gospel, Acts 2:38.

How can it be only a new covenant heart/spiritual circumcision, if it was told to them/used in the old covenant, in the bolded verses?

[Amanah]

Paul had to be converted to remain in a covenant relationship with God:

From Pharisee to Apostle

Paul, born Saul of Tarsus, was a devout Jew and Pharisee who persecuted Jesus' followers. However, his life took a dramatic turn on the road to Damascus.

The Damascus Encounter

Acts 9:1-31; Acts 22:1-21; Acts 26:1-23; Galatians 1:13-17

A blinding light and Jesus' voice transformed Paul, leaving him blinded and led to his conversion.

Blameless Under the Law

Philippians 3

Paul wrote, "If anyone else thinks he has reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more: circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee; as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for righteousness based on the law, faultless."

Spiritual Transformation

Paul's conversion involved:

- Spiritual circumcision (Romans 2:29; Colossians 2:11-12)
- Faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 4:11-12)
- Baptism (Acts 9:18; Galatians 3:27)

Ananias baptized Paul, restoring his sight. Paul's new identity was in Christ through the death, burial, and resurrection of the Acts 2:38 gospel: Repentance, baptism in Jesus' name, and receiving the Holy Ghost evidenced by speaking in tongues.

[shag]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Paul had to be converted to remain in a covenant relationship with God:

From Pharisee to Apostle

Paul, born Saul of Tarsus, was a devout Jew and Pharisee who persecuted Jesus' followers. However, his life took a dramatic turn on the road to Damascus.

The Damascus Encounter

Acts 9:1-31; Acts 22:1-21; Acts 26:1-23; Galatians 1:13-17

A blinding light and Jesus' voice transformed Paul, leaving him blinded and led to his conversion.

Blameless Under the Law

Philippians 3

Paul wrote, "If anyone else thinks he has reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more: circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee; as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for righteousness based on the law, faultless."

Spiritual Transformation

Paul's conversion involved:

- Spiritual circumcision (Romans 2:29; Colossians 2:11-12)
- Faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 4:11-12)
- Baptism (Acts 9:18; Galatians 3:27)

Ananias baptized Paul, restoring his sight. Paul's new identity was in Christ through the death, burial, and resurrection of the Acts 2:38 gospel: Repentance, baptism in Jesus' name, and receiving the Holy Ghost evidenced by speaking in tongues.

I’m not arguing, ftr, we are just discussing


You equate heart circumcision with receiving the Holyghost, if I’m understanding you correctly. Or, born again experience. I think…

My question is, how were the people expected to have heart circumcision, 1500 years give or take before Christ, in Deuteronomy and Jeremiah, if it wasn’t possible?


Also, I’m assuming you would say/are saying that Paul before conversion, did not have a circumcised heart because circumcised heart came with his conversion experience, would that be correct?

[Amanah]

The new covenant provides spiritual transformation that is superior to the old covenant as explained below:

Romans 8:1-14 KJV
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

[shag]

Acts 7:51..“You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit. As your fathers did, so do you.


Deut. 10: 16..Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

Jer. 4:4
4..Circumcise yourselves to the Lord, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem:


Deut. 30:6
6 And the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your offspring, so that you will love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live.



These heart circumcisions sure seemed to preceded the new birth experience of Acts 2.




Perhaps Paul had a circumcised heart before conversion, and Cornelius did in Acts 10, and that’s what led them to the new birth.