More over-reacting to the "Light Doctrine"

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

That is not "the Light Doctrine™".

Thank you

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

MBlume



Yes and no. Its true they believed you had to accept the foundation truths of Jesus to be saved. Im not so sure that we can refuse to obey or believe in other things Jesus taught and make it in.

Holiness might be a good example. It is not among the foundation doctrines in Hebrews but is taught as salvational everywhere one looks in the New Testament.

People have perceptual grids in their minds that came from tradition rather than scripture to dictate to them what HOLINESS means. Holiness simply means we belong to God. Anything else is error. So, of course you need to belong to God to be saved.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I answered your question in saying these words.

What's wrong with a forthright yes or no?

It's obvious why you did not say yes or no.

[Lemon]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I believe every disciple "is saved" until they reject Truth. Truth being God's Word on any subject. But I also believe - and this is important - that I do not have the capability to determine at what point that irrevocably occurs.

For instance: Many have struggled with some Truth presented to them, years even, as they wrestle with it, until they are firmly and finally convinced. It takes different people different amounts of time to understand things. Thus, one who teaches must be "patient".

On the other hand, there are situations where two or three admonitions are all that is required, after which they either shape up or ship out. We have to be careful though not to mistake our inability to teach clearly with another person's inability or unwillingness to submit to the Word.

Whoa!

Crazy long thread.
Interesting points made.
Where are some of these people today though?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Lemon

Whoa!

Crazy long thread.
Interesting points made.
Where are some of these people today though?

I'm still here.

[Michael The Disciple]

Still around.

[Bro Flame]

I know a good many Pentecostals that believe the Light Doctrine, even if they don't call it by name. I've heard so many people within these churches say how God will judge people by what they know, and that is the simplest description of the Light Doctrine.

I'll say it like this: Either we believe the Gospel we hold so dear, or we don't. We cannot have it both ways. Either people must obey the Gospel and the only Plan of Salvation to enter the Kingdom of God, or they don't. We cannot have it both ways.

Of course, I do know that God is the sole judge of an individual's soul. I will never put myself in that position. However, I do know what the Bible says one must do in order to inherit eternal life. I am responsible for telling others what that consists of. If I tell them anything less is acceptable, then I fear their blood would fall on my hands and that I would have to answer to Jesus about that one that day comes.

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by Bro Flame

I know a good many Pentecostals that believe the Light Doctrine, even if they don't call it by name. I've heard so many people within these churches say how God will judge people by what they know, and that is the simplest description of the Light Doctrine.

I'll say it like this: Either we believe the Gospel we hold so dear, or we don't. We cannot have it both ways. Either people must obey the Gospel and the only Plan of Salvation to enter the Kingdom of God, or they don't. We cannot have it both ways.

Of course, I do know that God is the sole judge of an individual's soul. I will never put myself in that position. However, I do know what the Bible says one must do in order to inherit eternal life. I am responsible for telling others what that consists of. If I tell them anything less is acceptable, then I fear their blood would fall on my hands and that I would have to answer to Jesus about that one that day comes.

When you read church history, it is hard to say what you are saying. You hear people persecuted, receiving the Holy Spirit speaking in tongues, great miracles among them, even resurrections, practicing holiness, and many martyred, yet still baptizing in the titles and believing in the Trinity.

There are three camps in Apostolic Pentecostal groups regarding that:

A) God will judge people by what they know
B) It can't be told what the destiny of those cases are. We trust God with those cases that He will do what it is right. We don't gamble, so keep preaching the truth, and defending it, that if you believe in Christ and you obey Acts 2.38 you will be saved.
C) If they believed in Christ and repented and all that, but they didn't complete Acts 2.38, they are in Hell, regardless of whether they heard the truth and rejected or they didn't hear the truth.

The majority of people I know echo David Bernard position, which is B. I have never heard in person or in book authors of position A by nobody in Apostolic circles. I have heard of the position C basically here in AFF.

[Esaias]

God will judge people by the Word.

Miracles and great deeds do not earn salvation:

Matthew 7:21-27 KJV
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. [22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? [23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. [24] Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: [25] And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. [26] And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: [27] And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

[Esaias]

In regards to "proper baptism" we need to account for this:

Acts 22:16 KJV
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Who does the "calling" here?