Ministries for women porn addicts

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

I think the answer to some of these questions would be whatever takes place - it needs to be agreed upon by both spouses. Nothing should ever be forced.

Originally Posted by Aquila

I think that's pretty balanced.

Ditto!

And as every couple has their personal preferences, I can totally agree with Renda's comment.

[allstate1]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Heb 5:14

14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
KJV

I think this scripture is a little wierd to post on a porn dicussion!!! Stong meat and full age senses exercised????!!!!!

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by allstate1

I think this scripture is a little wierd to post on a porn dicussion!!! Stong meat and full age senses exercised????!!!!!

I'm sure it's speaking of spiritual senses. Point being somethings are discerned not spelled in the bible.

[DaveC519]

Hello Aquila,

Thank you for your response.

I'm sorry to hear of your negative church experience. I hope you have found a church which meets your needs.

I don’t disagree, but I do see it a bit differently. Yes, the #1 problem facing marriage today is “individual needs” being asserted over “couples needs”. But why is this? Why does one partner suddenly begin asserting their needs over “couples needs”? I believe that when an individual’s needs (spiritual, emotional, physical) aren’t being met they can only go on so long before something breaks. Sadly, too many couples discover the unmet needs after they’ve festered and evolved into terrible conditions and/or circumstances. I don’t believe that in marriage we suddenly deny our individuality and become clones of one another. I also don’t believe that our individual needs suddenly become sinful and all must be sacrificed for the couple’s needs. In fact, I believe that there must be a balance. Neither one’s individual needs nor the needs of the couple should be neglected at the expense of the other. To neglect individual needs for the needs of the couple or to neglect the couple’s needs for the needs of the individual is a recipe for disaster.

I agree that couples are comprised of individuals, and individuals have individual needs. You'll notice, though, that my original point was that the #1 problem facing marriage today is that of individual needs being asserted OVER couple needs. Perhaps I should elaborate. When one of the marriage partners asserts their need at the expense and/or detriment of the other, then this is damaging. I'll bring this point out in response to your other comments below. So while I agree it is both okay and healthy for a partner to meet their own needs (caveat: depending on what the need is), I don't agree it should be at the expense of their partner. I believe that, in the long run, sexual self-gratification is one such example of a partner meeting their own "need" at the expense of the other.

When I was in the Army I was a Medic. I remember one of my first assignments with an Armored Cavalry unit. The tankers and scouts were hard at work out in the field sweating their guts out training. It was my ambulance’s job to supervise the training and responds to any medical emergency. While supervising training we sat in one of the ambulances. This ambulance had a radio, air-conditioning, plenty of water, plenty of food, litters to rest on if we became tired, a couple decks of cards, etc. Yes, we had a quite a few luxuries. I’d monitor those training and I felt kind of guilty. I turned to my sergeant and said, “I feel a little guilty sitting here in the air-conditioning while those soldiers are sweating their guts out.” The sergeant looked at me and said, “Specialist, let’s say you’re one of those guys and you get seriously hurt in training. Do you want a fresh, crisp, cool, calm, and collected medic responding to you….or do you want a tired and sweaty medic responding to you? By taking care of yourself…you’re taking care of them.”

While I think this is a good analogy you've provided, I disagree that this can be applied to sexual self-gratification in the marriage for reasons I've previously stated.

I see where elements of this rings true for marriage. Individuals can’t always neglect their individual needs for the sake of the couple’s needs. I believe this applies to more than physical needs; it can be expanded into one’s spiritual and emotional needs too. Sometimes the individual needs of a person are neglected to the point that they start to spiritually, emotionally, or even physically hurt. It is at this point that they are weak and susceptible to temptations to sin. Take a spouse whose individual emotional needs have been neglected. They meet someone at work who seems to care. They will be more susceptible to falling into an emotional affair, or even a physical affair because their personal emotional needs were neglected. Neglect someone’s spiritual needs and watch as they become spiritually lethargic and backslide.

I would say this is a good example of one partner asserting their needs to the neglect of the other. We must ask why the spouse above did not have their emotional needs met, which have now led them to engage in this particular behavior. I would venture to say it was due to their partner's pattern of behavior which asserted their individual needs above, and to the neglect of, the needs of the spouse. This again points back to my original assertion.

Yes, the unit (the coupling) has needs. But the coupling is comprised of individuals. I’ve seen couples wherein individual needs are denied. All too often it’s not at the expense of the “couple’s needs”, but meeting the entirety of the dominant parties personal needs. We’ve seen this in marriages where mom stayed married to dad through thick and then, abuse and betrayal…and though she’s miserable, strung out on anti-depressants, and life is void of any joy she remains by his side. Almost like a trapped animal. Meanwhile he’s still yelling at her to fetch him another beer while he eats cheese puffs in front of the television. If the individual’s needs are not met…the couple’s needs are not met. It’s like riding a bicycle with one or both tires flat. Imagine a car if you will, it has four tiers. Can you deny the needs of each individual tire and only work on the needs of the engine? No. You need to tend to BOTH the engine and the needs of the individual tires. You need to tend to both their needs as a couple and their needs as individuals.

See above.

That’s too simplistic to me. I agree as far as couples needing to grow together. But what often causes them to grow apart is neglect. When a spouse neglects their partner’s needs that partner will naturally grow towards where those needs can be met. That’s a given. We can argue if it’s right or if it’s wrong…but my point is that it will happen.

You continue to prove my original assertion, though. I agree that couples grow apart due to neglect. Again, the neglect is one partner asserting their needs over and above the needs of the couple. The needs of the couple are that EACH partner's needs are met, not just one.

You said that marriage is a ministry wherein we need to ask “How may I best serve my partner?” While I get your sentiment, I think the wording here illustrates an underlying issue. A spouse shouldn’t have to guess what their partner’s needs are. Both should be in such intimate communication that they voice their needs to one another openly, and each accepts the other unconditionally and seeks to meet the needs revealed. So where you present platitudes, I present a conversation. Both need to ask, “What are your needs and how can I meet them?” And both need to answer, “These are my needs and here’s how you can meet them.” Guessing games rarely work.

I agree with you that good communication is the key, and that one partner shouldn't have to guess the needs of the other. That's why I stressed that both need to ask, "How may I best serve my partner?" When this is asked, the other can and should express their needs.

I don’t separate one’s physical needs in this area from the person. I don’t see these needs or impulses as something to be denied, something filthy, or something unholy that needs to be reined in with marriage providing the only pressure release valve.

I disagree, and I believe Scripture does, as well. Yes, humans have the capacity for sexual desire. Scripture gives us but one option to fulfill this desire: marriage. It does not condone us fulfilling these desires via fornication, adultery, prostitution, homosexuality, beastiality, or self-gratification. Why? Because all of these are selfish expressions. Marriage is the one avenue allowed because it is (or should be) true ministry one to the other.

CONTINUED....

[DaveC519]

I see this as one aspect of our nature. It is governed largely by hormones. For example, young adults seem to have a very hard time controlling these urges. A pastor in his 50’s or 60’s will demand they have more “willpower”. If he can overcome these urges…certainly they can. Right? PRAY PRAY PRAY. FAST FAST FAST. Ahhh…but the hormone levels are crazy in these young adults. The 60 year old pastor’s body isn’t going through anything like what they are. Where he thinks he’s achieved some sort of victory, the truth is, his body isn’t putting up much of a fight compared to the 22 year old college kid’s. Interestingly enough, I’ve talked with many elders who are two and three times my age. Many have the strict opinion you present here. But when I probed…they felt differently when they were younger. When they faced the raging hormones, changes, interest in girls (or boys if it’s a young lady), and had romance burning alive before them…they were no different than anyone else. They had the same behaviors. They weren’t so “spiritual”. Lol Many regularly took care of their own needs in their younger years. Now they don’t have such a strong urge too. Biology is taking a different course for them now. And so they think differently about it. They see the world through the lenses of their here and now. But if you could make them younger again, even with what they know now, they’d be no different. These human needs and behaviors are universal.

Your position places biology above biblical commandment. God fully recognizes that younger people have stronger biological urges than older. But his commandments are for all, not simply the old. When Paul said that God provides a way of escape for those tempted, that is not simply a promise for the old, but for all. While I agree that "these human needs" are universal, the behavior is not condoned by God.

I see this aspect of our nature as part of a greater whole. I don’t know if you’ve read much about Dr. James Dobson’s position on this. But Dr. Dobson’s position and my position are nearly the same.

Yes, I'm familiar with Dr. Dobson's position on this, and I think he's mistaken. Basically, he has stated that he sees nothing wrong with pre-married adolescent males engaging in "self gratification", but that it would be wrong for them to continue this behavior after marriage. Here's why I disagree with his first assertion:
1)- Dr. Dobson acknowledges that human males are aroused via visual stimulation (looking at women, etc.)

2)- Unmarried males have no partner which they can fantasize about during self-gratification, therefore, they are prone to fantasize about women to whom they are not married.

3)- Since Jesus said that if a man (including young males) looks on (which includes fantasizing) a woman to lust after her, he has already committed adultery. This would extend to unmarried men fantasizing over unmarried women, which would be fornication- and still sin.

4)- Once a behavior such as self gratification is established in a young male, it does have a high probability of being continued into adulthood and into the marriage relationship.

5)- Married adult males who previously fantasized about women during self-gratification before marriage have a high probability of continuing this behavior once married. This is adultery.

So, what is the answer for young males (or females) who have "overwhelming" urges they can't contain? As you so adeptly suggested: PRAY PRAY PRAY FAST FAST FAST. This is not just for young people, but individuals of all ages. Since when are we, as a temple of the Holy Ghost, permitted to be ruled by our carnal nature? You keep suggesting that since these type of urges are "natural", that somehow it's okay to fulfill them. That's simply not Bible. Paul said he died daily! He said he brought under his body, and kept it under subjection. We are not to be ruled by our passions and lusts. That's called carnality! I don't care what age someone might be. If they've received the baptism of the Holy Ghost, then God gives them power over the flesh. If they do not practice this, then they are living in carnality.

I was filled with the baptism of the Holy Ghost at the age of 16. I did not engage in carnal behavior because I PRAYED AND FASTED. When my wife and I got married, both our virginity was in tact. That sort of thing is possible because the Holy Ghost makes it possible. "Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh."

[DaveC519]

Originally Posted by Aquila

CONTINUED...

Again too simplistic for me. I agree with you as far as finding out why this is happening, especially if this is leading to one partner defrauding the other of intimacy. But just because one or both partners occasionally meet personal needs, it doesn’t mean they automatically defraud the other. Some of the most loving and passionate couples have these behaviors in their marriages.

They defraud one another in God's eyes, because it violates the very concept of marriage: "two become one". As I said from the beginning, God intended sexual intimacy to be a shared experience between husband and wife.

As far as one having the, “right”, to seek fulfillment… I don’t see it as a right. I simply see it as a human need.

And God provided for the fulfillment of that need- within the marriage bond as a shared experience.

This need should not be met with any other individual accept their spouse. But this doesn’t preclude their own private activities or behaviors.

I guess I see these two statements as being contradictory. Private actions, by their very definition, exclude the partner.

This “impulses” are not sinful or wrong. Why pray and fast to suppress them? Why not embrace these healthy desires and rejoice, thanking God for this part of our nature? Scripture holds nothing back in condemning immoral behavior from adultery to bestiality. However, no where does Scripture condemn what we are talking about. I find that interesting seeing how universal it is among adolescents and single adults out of all cultures and even religions. Self discovery for adolescents and self gratification for the single is healthy. It isn’t dirty or unclean. It’s perfectly normal.

See my previous post. The fulfillment of impulses are sinful when then are met in ways outside the parameters of what God has granted.

God created people with this as part of our nature. It’s part of who and what we are. It’s not unclean, unhealthy, unchaste, or sinful. It’s a beautiful part of being a human being. Rather alone or with one’s spouse, this is a blessing. This is far more than a right; this is a gift and a blessing. It’s not strictly for procreation nor is it strictly for marriage. However, any act with another individual is strictly confined to marriage.

Again, the fulfillment of this outside the parameters of what God has established does make it sin. Scripture states that it is the "marriage bed" that is undefiled (Heb 13:4). The context of this statement is "marriage": two becoming one. The context of the "bed" (the implication is sexual gratification) is "marriage": two becoming one. This is why the author goes on to condemn whoremongering (fornication) and adultery- that which is outside the context of marriage. Therefore, any sexual gratification outside of the marriage bond (which includes both partners) is considered sin.

According to this logic it would be God’s perfect will that we all be celibates and non-sexual beings. I think this is a distortion of what is being taught here. Paul admonished singles and widows to be celibate as he was. However, Paul himself acknowledged that not every person has the gift he had. Remember, Paul is sharing his own thoughts here. We don’t have a “Thus saith the LORD” on this matter from Paul. Paul continues by simply saying that if one cannot contain, let them marry for it is better to marry than to burn with the passions of unfulfilled needs. Paul doesn’t condemn them as sinners or unclean people. If they are sinful unclean people…why admonish they marry??? In this case it would only be proper to command repentance. But Paul is rather pragmatic. If one cannot contain due to unmet needs they should look to marry. Paul didn’t condemn in any way. Paul just admonished that they do well to look to marry because it’s better than burning with unmet needs. And I believe any single or widow who has these unmet needs that they cannot contain will agree.

"Containing" unmet needs means to not allow them to be fulfilled. Celibacy is not just abstention from marriage, but abstention from sexual activity. This is what it means to be chaste. And yes, this is God's intention. If one is not married, then they are commanded to be chaste/celibate.

Paul never issued any condemnation. Paul just told them that it was better to marry than to continue with unmet needs that one cannot contain. Paul never once rebukes the single or the widow who can’t contain. He simply advises that they look to marry.

I disagree. See above.

I think we have to properly define “lusts”. Typically this word is used in relation to sinful desires. But not every desire is sinful. Consider the Song of Solomon. For several chapters we see two lovers thinking intimately about each other. Do we condemn them? No! We celebrate this. Whatever the result of their thinking intimately about each other we do well to celebrate their love and interest in one another. Their desire, though outside of the marriage bond, wasn’t considered sinful. It’s perfectly healthy. And if what we’re talking about is so sinful, don’t you think we should rethink the Song of Solomon? Are not these two “playing with fire” by thinking this way about each other when alone? As I said, I believe this to be normal and healthy and what becomes of it while they are individually alone is normal and healthy. However, this blessing should only be shared with another in the bonds of marriage.

Not all interpret this book as you have suggested it should be.

The lack of power originates from our departure from truly knowing Jesus. We worship ourselves in most Apostolic churches. We preach OUR standards, OUR organizational identy, OUR traditions, OUR elders teachings, OUR opinions. We worship being Apostolic Pentecostal….we seldom worship Jesus. I’ve seen congregations sit when preaching the cross but shout about hair and dress length. Religion is the reason why our churches have no power. We’ve become the Pharisees and Sadducees of the hour.

I whole-heartedly agree that there is a lack of proper focus upon the Savior. But I continue to assert that the fundamental basis for a lack of true, 1st ce. Holy Ghost power is that the churches are too carnal. Individuals are too engrossed in the lusts of the flesh, of the eyes, and the pride of life, instead of being holy vessels unto the Lord. I'm not talking about dress length or hair length. All that gets worked out when a vessel becomes truly yielded to the working of God in their life. If pastors preached on true holiness of the heart, there would be no need to preach on "standards". It would all get worked out by the Holy Ghost. True modesty would begin to manifest itself. But that's a sermon for another day.

True holiness isn’t about ascetism, celibacy, and abstinence. Holiness is about being separated unto the service of the LORD and living life as God intended. God didn’t intend us to be non-sexual creatures. God created us with healthy, normal impulses, that are blessings. And these blessings should only be shared within the bonds of marriage.

When we are separated through holiness unto the service of the Lord, it will produce temperance as a fruit of the Spirit. Although God created us as sexual creatures, he has given us but one avenue to express this- within the marriage bond.

Amen, a biblical holiness of heart. Not a revival of misguided religious notions and traditions of a bygone generation. Holiness must be achieved for our generation in the here and now. We cannot live according to the holiness achieved by previous generations.

I agree! May God form true holiness in each of us!

I agree, addiction to pornography is indeed an inward problem focused on self indulgence. But this doesn’t mean that all expressions of this part of our nature is sinful unless eye to eye with our spouse in the dark.

I think if we do treat all aspects of marriage as ministry, then it will helpt us focus on the "us" instead of the "I".

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by DaveC519

Your position places biology above biblical commandment. God fully recognizes that younger people have stronger biological urges than older. But his commandments are for all, not simply the old. When Paul said that God provides a way of escape for those tempted, that is not simply a promise for the old, but for all. While I agree that "these human needs" are universal, the behavior is not condoned by God.

Yes, I'm familiar with Dr. Dobson's position on this, and I think he's mistaken. Basically, he has stated that he sees nothing wrong with pre-married adolescent males engaging in "self gratification", but that it would be wrong for them to continue this behavior after marriage. Here's why I disagree with his first assertion:
1)- Dr. Dobson acknowledges that human males are aroused via visual stimulation (looking at women, etc.)

2)- Unmarried males have no partner which they can fantasize about during self-gratification, therefore, they are prone to fantasize about women to whom they are not married.

3)- Since Jesus said that if a man (including young males) looks on (which includes fantasizing) a woman to lust after her, he has already committed adultery. This would extend to unmarried men fantasizing over unmarried women, which would be fornication- and still sin.

4)- Once a behavior such as self gratification is established in a young male, it does have a high probability of being continued into adulthood and into the marriage relationship.

5)- Married adult males who previously fantasized about women during self-gratification before marriage have a high probability of continuing this behavior once married. This is adultery.

So, what is the answer for young males (or females) who have "overwhelming" urges they can't contain? As you so adeptly suggested: PRAY PRAY PRAY FAST FAST FAST. This is not just for young people, but individuals of all ages. Since when are we, as a temple of the Holy Ghost, permitted to be ruled by our carnal nature? You keep suggesting that since these type of urges are "natural", that somehow it's okay to fulfill them. That's simply not Bible. Paul said he died daily! He said he brought under his body, and kept it under subjection. We are not to be ruled by our passions and lusts. That's called carnality! I don't care what age someone might be. If they've received the baptism of the Holy Ghost, then God gives them power over the flesh. If they do not practice this, then they are living in carnality.

I was filled with the baptism of the Holy Ghost at the age of 16. I did not engage in carnal behavior because I PRAYED AND FASTED. When my wife and I got married, both our virginity was in tact. That sort of thing is possible because the Holy Ghost makes it possible. "Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh."

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by DaveC519

Your position places biology above biblical commandment. God fully recognizes that younger people have stronger biological urges than older. But his commandments are for all, not simply the old. When Paul said that God provides a way of escape for those tempted, that is not simply a promise for the old, but for all. While I agree that "these human needs" are universal, the behavior is not condoned by God.

Yes, I'm familiar with Dr. Dobson's position on this, and I think he's mistaken. Basically, he has stated that he sees nothing wrong with pre-married adolescent males engaging in "self gratification", but that it would be wrong for them to continue this behavior after marriage. Here's why I disagree with his first assertion:
1)- Dr. Dobson acknowledges that human males are aroused via visual stimulation (looking at women, etc.)

2)- Unmarried males have no partner which they can fantasize about during self-gratification, therefore, they are prone to fantasize about women to whom they are not married.

3)- Since Jesus said that if a man (including young males) looks on (which includes fantasizing) a woman to lust after her, he has already committed adultery. This would extend to unmarried men fantasizing over unmarried women, which would be fornication- and still sin.

4)- Once a behavior such as self gratification is established in a young male, it does have a high probability of being continued into adulthood and into the marriage relationship.

5)- Married adult males who previously fantasized about women during self-gratification before marriage have a high probability of continuing this behavior once married. This is adultery.

So, what is the answer for young males (or females) who have "overwhelming" urges they can't contain? As you so adeptly suggested: PRAY PRAY PRAY FAST FAST FAST. This is not just for young people, but individuals of all ages. Since when are we, as a temple of the Holy Ghost, permitted to be ruled by our carnal nature? You keep suggesting that since these type of urges are "natural", that somehow it's okay to fulfill them. That's simply not Bible. Paul said he died daily! He said he brought under his body, and kept it under subjection. We are not to be ruled by our passions and lusts. That's called carnality! I don't care what age someone might be. If they've received the baptism of the Holy Ghost, then God gives them power over the flesh. If they do not practice this, then they are living in carnality.

I was filled with the baptism of the Holy Ghost at the age of 16. I did not engage in carnal behavior because I PRAYED AND FASTED. When my wife and I got married, both our virginity was in tact. That sort of thing is possible because the Holy Ghost makes it possible. "Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh."

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by DaveC519

Your position places biology above biblical commandment. God fully recognizes that younger people have stronger biological urges than older. But his commandments are for all, not simply the old. When Paul said that God provides a way of escape for those tempted, that is not simply a promise for the old, but for all. While I agree that "these human needs" are universal, the behavior is not condoned by God.

Yes, I'm familiar with Dr. Dobson's position on this, and I think he's mistaken. Basically, he has stated that he sees nothing wrong with pre-married adolescent males engaging in "self gratification", but that it would be wrong for them to continue this behavior after marriage. Here's why I disagree with his first assertion:
1)- Dr. Dobson acknowledges that human males are aroused via visual stimulation (looking at women, etc.)

2)- Unmarried males have no partner which they can fantasize about during self-gratification, therefore, they are prone to fantasize about women to whom they are not married.

3)- Since Jesus said that if a man (including young males) looks on (which includes fantasizing) a woman to lust after her, he has already committed adultery. This would extend to unmarried men fantasizing over unmarried women, which would be fornication- and still sin.

4)- Once a behavior such as self gratification is established in a young male, it does have a high probability of being continued into adulthood and into the marriage relationship.

5)- Married adult males who previously fantasized about women during self-gratification before marriage have a high probability of continuing this behavior once married. This is adultery.

So, what is the answer for young males (or females) who have "overwhelming" urges they can't contain? As you so adeptly suggested: PRAY PRAY PRAY FAST FAST FAST. This is not just for young people, but individuals of all ages. Since when are we, as a temple of the Holy Ghost, permitted to be ruled by our carnal nature? You keep suggesting that since these type of urges are "natural", that somehow it's okay to fulfill them. That's simply not Bible. Paul said he died daily! He said he brought under his body, and kept it under subjection. We are not to be ruled by our passions and lusts. That's called carnality! I don't care what age someone might be. If they've received the baptism of the Holy Ghost, then God gives them power over the flesh. If they do not practice this, then they are living in carnality.

I was filled with the baptism of the Holy Ghost at the age of 16. I did not engage in carnal behavior because I PRAYED AND FASTED. When my wife and I got married, both our virginity was in tact. That sort of thing is possible because the Holy Ghost makes it possible. "Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh."

:b liss

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by DaveC519

Your position places biology above biblical commandment. God fully recognizes that younger people have stronger biological urges than older. But his commandments are for all, not simply the old. When Paul said that God provides a way of escape for those tempted, that is not simply a promise for the old, but for all. While I agree that "these human needs" are universal, the behavior is not condoned by God.

Yes, I'm familiar with Dr. Dobson's position on this, and I think he's mistaken. Basically, he has stated that he sees nothing wrong with pre-married adolescent males engaging in "self gratification", but that it would be wrong for them to continue this behavior after marriage. Here's why I disagree with his first assertion:
1)- Dr. Dobson acknowledges that human males are aroused via visual stimulation (looking at women, etc.)

2)- Unmarried males have no partner which they can fantasize about during self-gratification, therefore, they are prone to fantasize about women to whom they are not married.

3)- Since Jesus said that if a man (including young males) looks on (which includes fantasizing) a woman to lust after her, he has already committed adultery. This would extend to unmarried men fantasizing over unmarried women, which would be fornication- and still sin.

4)- Once a behavior such as self gratification is established in a young male, it does have a high probability of being continued into adulthood and into the marriage relationship.

5)- Married adult males who previously fantasized about women during self-gratification before marriage have a high probability of continuing this behavior once married. This is adultery.

So, what is the answer for young males (or females) who have "overwhelming" urges they can't contain? As you so adeptly suggested: PRAY PRAY PRAY FAST FAST FAST. This is not just for young people, but individuals of all ages. Since when are we, as a temple of the Holy Ghost, permitted to be ruled by our carnal nature? You keep suggesting that since these type of urges are "natural", that somehow it's okay to fulfill them. That's simply not Bible. Paul said he died daily! He said he brought under his body, and kept it under subjection. We are not to be ruled by our passions and lusts. That's called carnality! I don't care what age someone might be. If they've received the baptism of the Holy Ghost, then God gives them power over the flesh. If they do not practice this, then they are living in carnality.

I was filled with the baptism of the Holy Ghost at the age of 16. I did not engage in carnal behavior because I PRAYED AND FASTED. When my wife and I got married, both our virginity was in tact. That sort of thing is possible because the Holy Ghost makes it possible. "Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh."