Do You Believe In Women Preachers?

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Thank you...getting almost too old anymore...however I keep pressing toward the mark....

Psalms 92:12-15,

"The righteous shall flourish like the palm tree: he shall grow like a cedar in Lebanon. Those that be planted in the house of the LORD shall flourish in the courts of our God. They shall still bring forth fruit in old age; they shall be fat and flourishing; To shew that the LORD is upright: he is my rock, and there is no unrighteousness in him."

Falla39

[rdp]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Again, it's Junia not Junias. Maybe you can't get it right in greek because you can't get it right in english?

Wrong about that just as you are "women preacher's"!! See the modern translations....which are baased upon far older & more manuscripts! Sinking again............

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

On "Junia"

Net bible commentary:sn The feminine name Junia, though common in Latin, is quite rare in Greek (apparently only three instances of it occur in Greek literature outside Rom 16:7, according to the data in the TLG [D. Moo, Romans [NICNT], 922]). The masculine Junias (as a contraction for Junianas), however, is rarer still: Only one instance of the masculine name is known in extant Greek literature (Epiphanius mentions Junias in his Index discipulorum 125). Further, since there are apparently other husband-wife teams mentioned in this salutation (Prisca and Aquila [v. 3], Philologus and Julia [v. 15]), it might be natural to think of Junia as a feminine name. (This ought not be pressed too far, however, for in v. 12 all three individuals are women [though the first two are linked together], and in vv. 9–11 all the individuals are men.) In Greek only a difference of accent distinguishes between Junias (male) and Junia (female). If it refers to a woman, it is possible (1) that she had the gift of apostleship (not the office), or (2) that she was not an apostle but along with Andronicus was esteemed by (or among) the apostles. As well, the term “prominent” probably means “well known,” suggesting that Andronicus and Junia(s) were well known to the apostles (see note on the phrase “well known” which follows).
Biblical Studies Press. (2006; 2006). The NET Bible First Edition Notes (Ro 16:6–7). Biblical Studies Press.

Ἰουνία, ας, ἡ (SEG XVIII, 143 [c. 43 A.D.]; on the form s. Mlt-H. 155) Junia, compatriot or relative of Paul, one who like Paul suffered imprisonment, and distinguished among the apostles Ro 16:7 v.l. Ancient commentators took Andr. and Junia as a married couple. Some patristic identification (JFitzmyer, Anchor Bible: Romans, ’93, 737f) favors the reading of her name in the text (so NRSV, REB; RCervin, NTS 40, ’94, 464–70); in opposition to this identification Ltzm. (Hdb. ad loc.), who offers no evidence to support his statement that the context appears to exclude her from consideration. Moreover, unlike Ἰουνιᾶν (s. next entry), the form Ἰουνίαν is actually found so accented in some mss. (s. N. app.). For apostolic prestige accorded a woman s. Aa I, 235 app. ln. 2: ἰσαπόστολος of Thecla.
Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., & Bauer, W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed.) (480). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.

7. Andronicus and Junia—or, as it might be, “Junias,” a contracted form of “Junianus”; in this case, it is a man’s name. But if, as is more probable, the word be, as in our version, “Junia,” the person meant was no doubt either the wife or the sister of Andronicus.
Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., Fausset, A. R., Brown, D., & Brown, D. (1997). A commentary, critical and explanatory, on the Old and New Testaments (Ro 16:7). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.


Others, however, were impressed by the facts that (1) the female Latin name Junia occurs more than 250 times in Greek and Latin inscriptions found in Rome alone, whereas the male name Junias is unattested anywhere, and (2) when Greek manuscripts began to be accented, scribes wrote the feminine Ἰουνίαν (“Junia”). (For recent discussions, see R. R. Schulz in Expository Times, IIC (1986–87), pp. 108–110; J. A. Fitzmyer, Romans (Anchor Bible Commentary, 1993), pp. 737 f.; and R. S. Cervin in New Testament Studies, XL (1994), pp. 464–470.)
The “A” decision of the Committee must be understood as applicable only as to the spelling of the name Ἰουνιαν, not the accentuation.
Metzger, B. M., & United Bible Societies. (1994). A textual commentary on the Greek New Testament, second edition a companion volume to the United Bible Societies' Greek New Testament (4th rev. ed.) (475–476). London; New York: United Bible Societies.

And, though I don't have the time right now, I could just as easily post quotes that say Junias is a man...not a woman! Again, the word is masculine...not feminine! What more do you want?????

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Ἰουνία, ας, ἡ (SEG XVIII, 143 [c. 43 A.D.]; on the form s. Mlt-H. 155) Junia, compatriot or relative of Paul, one who like Paul suffered imprisonment, and distinguished among the apostles Ro 16:7 v.l. Ancient commentators took Andr. and Junia as a married couple. Some patristic identification (JFitzmyer, Anchor Bible: Romans, ’93, 737f) favors the reading of her name in the text (so NRSV, REB; RCervin, NTS 40, ’94, 464–70); in opposition to this identification Ltzm. (Hdb. ad loc.), who offers no evidence to support his statement that the context appears to exclude her from consideration. Moreover, unlike Ἰουνιᾶν (s. next entry), the form Ἰουνίαν is actually found so accented in some mss. (s. N. app.). For apostolic prestige accorded a woman s. Aa I, 235 app. ln. 2: ἰσαπόστολος of Thecla.

Ἰουνιᾶς, ᾶ, ὁ Junias (not found elsewh., could be a short form of the common Junianus; s. B-D-F §125, 2; Rob. 172) according to the rdg. of the N. text a Judean Christian, who was imprisoned w. Paul or shared a similar experience Ro 16:7; s. on Ἀνδρόνικος. But the accented form Ἰουνιᾶν has no support as such in the ms. tradition; for critique of B-D-R §125, 2, 6 in connection w. the N. rdg. s. UPlisch, NTS 42, ’96, 477f, n. 2. For the strong probability that a woman named Junia is meant s. prec. entry.—M-M.


Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., & Bauer, W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed.) (480). Chicago: University of Chicago Press. (otherwise known as the BDAG)

Hey Prax...way to quote BAGD's....3rd edition! The 2nd edition is the most widely accepted amongst scholars, since it's well known that Gingrich waffled on quite a bit of the definitions from the 2nd edition. I think it's the 2nd edition [I think?] that says it "CANNOT be known for sure whether Junias be a man or woman." Thus, any "point" about Junias cannot be concrete.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Adan was first formed...however God gave to them BOTH Dominion...so if we go all the way back to Gen. we find our they ruled together...

Pls. don't tell us you're suggesting that Adam & Eve were on equal footing regarding authority! Was there no headship at all? This flies directly in the face of I Cor. 11 & I Tim. 2:11-15 [of course].

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

fellowship among some circles. I believe that makes Jesus weep.
It is obvious that if we take Deborah out of the Bible, Israel remains in bondage, if we take out Ester, Israel is killed, if we take out Huldah, Israel remains without someone to interpret the scroll. If we take out Mary we remain without a Savior, if we take out the women at the tomb no one knows He has risen. So at many key times God in his wisdom chooses to use women. Why? I just really don’t know. Maybe it is because of his sense of humor. Does not his own word say his ways are past finding out? On so many occasions when man has thought they have figured God out He shows up and does exactly opposite to our human thinking.
We read about women who served at the door of the tent that had to be of the priestly tribe of Aaron or the servant tribe of Levi.. Women served at the door of the tent from very early in the history of Israel. Women who served at the door of the tent had to be trained in all points of religious and civil law in order not to infringe the laws and to enforce them. Women who served at the door of the tent had to be valid witnesses for services said to be performed there. So women played some part however we look at the pages of God’s word.
To understand more about the earliest years of Christianity we must understand that there was no monarchical episcopate thus the first Christians were quite different in their thinking and practices from the church world today.
So many things changed in the early church, by the time of Gregory the Great (604 AD), the laity were mere 'children of the Church'.
The ekklesia of Christ describes the most beautiful relationship known to man. The Savior chose the word and we certainly cannot express it better. When Jesus said "I will build my ekklesia", he was not talking about an institution or institutions neither was he talking about some man made organization. What He promised to build was His assembly, His group, His gathering, or His called out people. I guess we could sum it up by saying His body. As long as the church remained with that in mind there were no problems of “women preachers” but each person fulfilled what he/she was called to do. Only after “the church” adopted Rome’s methods do we encounter the dilemma we face today.
1 Corinthians 14 describes what a service was like among the first Christians.
“Everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation." (NIV, 1 Cor 14:26)
“Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy. For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit. But everyone who prophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort. He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified.” (NIV, 1 Cor 14:1-5)
Meetings in the early church must have been so exciting as each shared what God had given them.

And not a one of them "preached/taught" men out of the Scriptures, as modern "women preacher's" do today! When they do, they are in disobedience to the very Bible they "preach" out of.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Wise men like King David will recognize the “Abigails”. The “Baraks” will gladly follow the “Deborahs”. Kings and priests will learn from the “Huldahs”. The “Simons” will rejoice as the “Annas” do prophesy. Even the “Mordicahs” will remind the “Esthers” that life alone depends on their brave interceding.
We need to understand that there is a “middle of the road” for every woman of God especially if she is married and has children. There are domestic responsibilities as well as spiritual responsibilities. The wise woman knows how to combine both. For example, Deborah and her friend, Jael, had their domestic responsibilities, and fulfilled them; but they were also used of God. For in one of the most difficult times of Israel’s history, God chose these women as leaders to bring freedom to their nation. Deborah, as God’s mouthpiece, vanquished and annihilated the formidable powers that had ground Israel to dust for twenty years.

Ho-Hum...still waiting to see which of these "preached/taught" men out of the Scriptures as "women preacher's" do today. So, none of these posts will invalidate I Tim. 2:11-15.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

The word “prophecy” is a noteworthy noun that means, “inspired declaration of God’s will and purpose.” Prophecy in the verb tense means “to proclaim by inspiration the Word of God.” Both means preaching and declaring God’s Word with inspiration. Tracing this word a little further we learn that part of the word means “luminousness” or like shining a light. The prefix “pro” of the Greek word “propheteuo” means “in front of.”
We can apply this word’s meaning to one that is divinely inspired to speak in front of others as to shine light on the Scriptures. Women of God have the same responsibility as the men to shine light on the Scriptures, as the Lord should lead. While the duty of sharing the light is to all let me reiterate I am not speaking of a women getting out of her place, I think I made this clear at the beginning of the book. The promise is to all believers, Acts 2:39. And in Acts 2:15-18, both men and women was given power to prophesy. (Acts 2:18 “And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy.”)
Many Christian women have a place that God has given them in both the ministry and in gifts of His Spirit. If we do not accept this reality, we can make the Word of God of no effect (Mark 7:13). “For the Pharisees and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders,” Mark 7:3.
Tradition is the culture or attitude of an inherited belief. Jesus rebuked these religious leaders for holding more to their traditions than allowing the Word of God take effect in their hearts. If women are restricted from allowing God’s miracles to move through them then God’s glory and power will be restricted from doing His will to reach out to lost souls.

Still waiting on you to demonstrate, instead of speculate, which of these women "taught/instructed/preached" from their Scriptures [as many men did], since you're claiming that these passages "okay" women to do so today:________________? Respectfully, you're only assuming & speculating what you fail to demonstrate....not to mention how you totally ignore I Tim. 2:11-15 in all of these posts....which is the "Fallacy of Neglected Aspect".

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Ferd

i pictured you using the "wizzard of Oz" voice when you said "The commandments of God"


that was funny! thanks for the laugh.

"I DO NOT ALLOW A WOMAN TO TEACH, OR TO EXCERCISE AUTHORITY OVER A MAN. SHE IS TO REMAIN QUIET. FOR ADAM WAS FIRST FORMED, THEN EVE...."

Ughhh, that's what you're "laughing" at...the commandments of God through Paul to the NT church, which YOU claim to be a part of !

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by rdp

Wrong about that just as you are "women preacher's"!! See the modern translations....which are baased upon far older & more manuscripts! Sinking again............

You mean like how the NIV used to go with Junias but now because of access to more manuscripts goes with Junia?

New International Version (©1984)
Greet Andronicus and Junias, my relatives who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was.

Romans 16:7 (New International Version, ©2010)
Greet Andronicus and Junia, my fellow Jews who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among[a] the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was.