Do You Believe In Women Preachers?

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Socialite

Daughter who prophesies. Prax is saying those "prophetess" is not listed, it's quite clear women prophesied, which we would call a "prophetess."

Wrong..the one is not equivolent to the other. If I do some electrical work around the house, am I automatically a "Electrician"? If I plant a tomatoe, am I now a Gardener?

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I have no idea who those men are. Here is the point and OP made it in another thread





So YOU think Paul was commanding believers to kiss each other...Do you preach it? It does not sound like it the way you said you wish it were still practiced.

At least OP realizes this was a cultural thing, not a biblical command. But that was the point, when looking at what the bible teaches we are supposed to research and understand...have understanding. In the case of a kiss Paul was not creating yet another new law for the church to be burdened with. He was reminding the brothers to be cordial and in that day and age a common greeting was with a kiss. In some places they still do that.

But your answer presents another issue, if you really DO believe this you should be teaching this to everyone as a biblical command. Why allow people to be disobedient if you really believe this is a biblical command?

I already demonstrated to you that the Kiss was not tied to the order of creation as "women preacher's" is. Do I have to sit here & just repeat myself all day?

See Prax, here's the problem w/ your hermeneutical methodology: After you get finished relegating everything that doesn't fir your fancy to mere "cultural relevance," that's the same thing the Gay "preacher's" say! After a while, repentance will merely be "cultural," the more excellent route is to obey the Word of God as consistently as we can...not erase what we don't like in the name of "culture"!

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by rdp

Wrong..the one is not equivolent to the other. If I do some electrical work around the house, am I automatically a "Electrician"? If I plant a tomatoe, am I now a Gardener?

It depends on the "role" and how it is defined. If you do the things that defines an "Electrician" as an electrician then you are one!

Paul even proves this point as I showed in a previous post..He calls those that use the gift of prophecy "prophets"

A gardener can be defined by the dictionary as
any person who gardens or is skillful in gardening.

Gardens
to work in, cultivate, or take care of (a garden, plot of land, etc)

So if you fit that definition, then YOU are a gardener! So what was the definition of a prophet? I already posted that definition.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by rdp

I already demonstrated to you that the Kiss was not tied to the order of creation as "women preacher's" is. Do I have to sit here & just repeat myself all day?

This is a red herring argument and a strawman argument. Nobody said the kiss has anything to do with order of creation or women preachers. The fact that you ignore the point and introduce some other point is a red herring.

the Point HERE was that people recognize that the kiss was NOT a new command given by Paul, even though Paul said to greet each other with one. The other point was that even people that insist on obeying everything the bible says don't really obey everything the bible says. And why? Because they recognize that some things were not meant to be taken as a command for all generations.

So the question remains, Do you teach everyone that they have to greet each other with a kiss because Paul said so? Yes or no?

See Prax, here's the problem w/ your hermeneutical methodology: After you get finished relegating everything that doesn't fir your fancy to mere "cultural relevance," that's the same thing the Gay "preacher's" say! After a while, repentance will merely be "cultural," the more excellent route is to obey the Word of God as consistently as we can...not erase what we don't like in the name of "culture"!

Its not a matter of what fits my fancy. It's a matter of understanding what the bible says. It is not the same thing as gay preachers because NOT everything in the bible was about the culture. Again you have to study this stuff out and research it, like the kiss even OP recognized was about culture

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I just did present evidence of a prophetess. Do you really think you can win an argument by introducing smilies? lol good grief

Let's refresh your memory again. What IS a prophetess?

Luk 2:36 And there was a prophetess, Anna, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was advanced in years, having lived with her husband seven years from when she was a virgin,

The greek word here is the feminine tense of the masculine form for prophet.

While you're appealling to gender specifics regarding grammar. Tell us why the term "elders" is ALWAYS in the MASCULINE & NEVER in FEMININE . Hmmm..........Moving right along.

The same word is used in the LXX version of the OT
Jdg 4:4 Now Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lappidoth, was judging Israel at that time.

2Ki 22:14 So Hilkiah the priest, and Ahikam, and Achbor, and Shaphan, and Asaiah went to Huldah the prophetess, the wife of Shallum the son of Tikvah, son of Harhas, keeper of the wardrobe (now she lived in Jerusalem in the Second Quarter), and they talked with her.

So what is a prophet?
Act 21:10 While we were staying for many days, a prophet named Agabus came down from Judea.
Act 21:11 And coming to us, he took Paul's belt and bound his own feet and hands and said, "Thus says the Holy Spirit, 'This is how the Jews at Jerusalem will bind the man who owns this belt and deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.'"

Prophet
In the NT prophḗtēs corresponds to the person who in the OT spoke under divine influence and inspiration. This included the foretelling future events or the exhorting, reproving, and threatening of individuals or nations as the ambassador of God and the interpreter of His will to men (Ezek. 2). Hence the prophet spoke not his own thoughts but what he received from God, retaining, however, his own consciousness and self-possession (Exo_7:1; 2Pe_1:20-21; especially 1Co_14:32).

And as we have seen a prophetess is a feminine version of the same word

So it's interesting that the verse in question comes just before the one above

(II) To tell forth God's message, hence the noun prophḗtēs (G4396), prophet, is the proclaimer, one who speaks out the counsel of God with the clearness, energy, and authority which spring from the consciousness of speaking in God's name and having received a direct message from Him to deliver. THUS, ONE MAY PROPHESY WITHOUT BEING A PROPHET IN THE STRICT SENSE OF THE WORD. A prophḗtēs, both in the OT and NT, is not primarily one who foretells things to come, but who (having been taught of God) speaks out His will (Deu_18:18; Is. chap. 1; Jer. chap. 1; Ezek. chap. 2; 1Co_14:3). The art of heathen

Did ya' see it in red above...or did ya' miss it?? All those quotes & NOT A ONE OF THEM SAYS ANYTHING ABOUT EXPOUNDING FROM THE SCRIPTURES...as many modern women do today [so I hear]. AND, to make matters worse, Prophecy connotes the lofty & spontaneuous utterance of the revealing of the hidden [much like interpretation of tongues w/out the tongue]...not a sermon from the Scriptures. Are you getting this Prax??

Those girls were prophetesses. They prophecied.

Then as soon as I pop a pimple I'm a dermatologist...right? Why not??

Now let's look at the gift!
1Co 14:3 On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation.

Notice next how prophecy is one of the ways to edify the church like teaching?

1Co 14:6 Now, brothers, if I come to you speaking in tongues, how will I benefit you unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching?

Then Notice what Paul says to the church?
1Co 14:26 What should you do then, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each one has a song, has a lesson, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. Let all these things be done for the strengthening of the church.

Also notice what Paul says about those exercising the gift of prophecy? He calls them prophets
1Co 14:29 Two or three prophets should speak and the others should evaluate what is said.

And what is prophecy for? Learning
1Co 14:31 For you can all prophesy one after another, so all can learn and be encouraged.

"Preacher" is not an office. Teachers are not Preachers. A teacher can be a preacher but those office or rolls are not the same. Same goes for the other offices. So the words are not synonymous.

The word Preach means to proclaim. Notice Paul uses it distinctly from being an Apostle and a teacher
1Ti 2:7 For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.

Sorry but you haven't done your homework.

Nice quotes about the gifts of the Spirit....not "preaching sermons to men"! Still waiting on you to provide the reference where a woman did this in Scripture:___________? Better go do a little more "homework"!

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Yes that is right. In fact Peter stood up and addressed men and women to decided on who should replace Judas

Wrong again Monfrare...Peter specifically singled out & addressed the "Brethren" [Acts 1:16] in tending to the matter. Looks like someone has dropped the ball again!

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

It depends on the "role" and how it is defined. If you do the things that defines an "Electrician" as an electrician then you are one!

Paul even proves this point as I showed in a previous post..He calls those that use the gift of prophecy "prophets"

A gardener can be defined by the dictionary as
any person who gardens or is skillful in gardening.

Gardens
to work in, cultivate, or take care of (a garden, plot of land, etc)

So if you fit that definition, then YOU are a gardener! So what was the definition of a prophet? I already posted that definition.

Most police officers wear dark colored shirts...so now all who wear dark shirts are automatically police officers??? Huh'...this is the blanket "logic" you're attempting to pass off.

Anything to erase the biblical instructions to the church eh' Prax. "I do not allow a woman to to teach, or to excercise authority over a man. She is to reamin quiet. Put your eraser down Prax...it's still there!

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

This is a red herring argument and a strawman argument. Nobody said the kiss has anything to do with order of creation or women preachers. The fact that you ignore the point and introduce some other point is a red herring.

the Point HERE was that people recognize that the kiss was NOT a new command given by Paul, even though Paul said to greet each other with one. The other point was that even people that insist on obeying everything the bible says don't really obey everything the bible says. And why? Because they recognize that some things were not meant to be taken as a command for all generations.

So the question remains, Do you teach everyone that they have to greet each other with a kiss because Paul said so? Yes or no?


Its not a matter of what fits my fancy. It's a matter of understanding what the bible says. It is not the same thing as gay preachers because NOT everything in the bible was about the culture. Again you have to study this stuff out and research it, like the kiss even OP recognized was about culture

Oh broher...nice craw-fish dance here. The problem here is that YOU become the judge of what's "relevant" today & what's not. This is the difference between "destructive criticisms" {Praxeas} vs. "Constructive Criticisms". As for us, we teach obedience to the BIBLE....in principle & precept! I've addressed the "silly "Kiss" argument ad nauseum. Funny how you fight the trinies, then use their same forms of argumentation [Ughhh, does "TheLayman" sound familiar]!? Dinner is almost served...check back later this week. Same ol' lame speculations in order to erase the Bible [or at least the parts you don't like...as Thomas Jefferson did!].......

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by rdp

Funny, there's at least 30 Formal Logical Fallacies....& the only people I know who deride them are those not studied in them. Go back to the books, then come see me.

I don't even have the time to respond to half of what you say.

There's also an entire book of biblical hermeneutics. I don't pick 3 key terms that I've learned and smother a post with them to prove I'm smart.

Try articulating, it works better.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by rdp

Wrong..the one is not equivolent to the other. If I do some electrical work around the house, am I automatically a "Electrician"? If I plant a tomatoe, am I now a Gardener?

Some say tomotoe, others say tomato

So... your argument is, though scriptures refer to someone as a prophetess, the prophet exceeds one who prophesies because they are a spiritual position in the Church? Is that what you're saying?

So can a woman preach even if she's not a preacher?