Where Have All The Men Gone?

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

There ... there ... more truth unchallenged.

We live in a society where women are made to be "equal with men and so should have equal rights." Yet, with the advent of TV and the dumbing down of society, we have the "Al Bundy approach to women" prevalent in society today.

This is not a sensual discussion, but one of real men being real men. The Promise Keepers Movement was partially correct, that the church is in dire need of real men today. Sadly, Daniel you seem to only want to take this to the gutter.

[rgcraig]

Maybe this should be another thread topic, but I have come across this situation being a single woman.

I'm 51, single after being married for 24 years in a marriage where I was completely submissive to my husband.

Now, I'm the head of my house with no one to make decisions for me, except for me and God. Also, at work I manage seven people in two departments. Because I can make decisions and "lead" people I could be looked at as too dominate.

I'm in a no-win situation - I have to work and I'm my own leader, but I was made to be submissive to a male over me.

[Pragmatist]

Originally Posted by Kae

Feminism in our culture has played a big part in taking away the role of the man. Women wanting a sperm donner so they don't have to deal with the men. Children are growing up thinking the mans role in the family is useless. This has crept into the church. Many women complain when their husbands won't be the spiritual leaders of the home. When men try to do things in the home and it doesn't line up to the womens standards men are criticized and questioned. I know this will rub women the wrong way, but women need to learn to follow their husbands without questioning and let them make mistakes and be there when they fall to hold them up without pointing the finger. It is through failure that leaders learn to lead. Giving your thoughts on a subject and questioning are two different things. A lot of men don't lead spiritually because they are criticized every step of the way. Men need to be appreciated and for their wives to think they are wonderful. This kind of criticism from a wife is disabling to a man. The most important person in his life feels he is a failure, so why try. This will make him want to stay away and not take part in the family. Yet when women make mistakes they expect to be forgiven without critisim.

When the men discipline the children and women don't agree they speak out and destroy the respect for the man in the children's eyes. When women don't agree they need to walk out of the room and later, when the children are not aware, discuss it with their husbands without the pointing finger. Children can read in their mothers eyes want they don't say with words. When I let go of our child and let my husband take over it was a very liberating day for me. He has taught them all to sit still in church. Our 15 month old sits through service and the only time we take him out is to change a diaper or get him water if I forget to bring some. This doesn't mean I don't discipline, I just learn from his example.

They Bible is very clear on a man having control of his family, yet I see ministers children doing somersaults in the isle and it is just a phase. That wouldn't have flown 50 years ago. I also see where women feel it is their responsibility to nurture and raise the child and the husband must do it their way.

I am not talking about being a doormat or letting the man control the women. I am talking about learning to let the husband lead the family. Trusting him enough to let him fail. That is really what submission is about.

Very good post. Too many women won't let their husband be the spiritual leader.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Pragmatist

Very good post. Too many women won't let their husband be the spiritual leader.

So is that the woman's fault? Maybe that's what we are trying to discuss here. Why are the men so willing to give the lead to women?

I didn't have a choice in my marriage - my husband was the leader and there was no question in my mind that he was. We discussed things together, but his say was final and most usually we always agreed with whatever the end decision was. I never tried to overrule him and never dreamed to go against him.

[Pragmatist]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

So is that the woman's fault? Maybe that's what we are trying to discuss here. Why are the men so easy to give the lead to women?

I didn't have a choice in my marriage - my husband was the leader and there was no question in my mind that he was. We discussed things together, but his say was final and most usually we always agreed with whatever the end decision was. I never tried to overrule him and never dreamed to go against him.

If she is trying to be the dominant one, it is her fault. If her husband is just a big wimp and she is forced to lead, it is his fault. I do think that SOME women undermine their husband, rather than affirm as the Bible commands.

[Pragmatist]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Maybe this should be another thread topic, but I have come across this situation being a single woman.

I'm 51, single after being married for 24 years in a marriage where I was completely submissive to my husband.

Now, I'm the head of my house with no one to make decisions for me, except for me and God. Also, at work I manage seven people in two departments. Because I can make decisions and "lead" people I could be looked at as too dominate.

I'm in a no-win situation - I have to work and I'm my own leader, but I was made to be submissive to a male over me.

I don't think you are supposed to be submissive to men other than your husband. God gave women brains also, and it wasn't as a decoration.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Pragmatist

If she is trying to be the dominant one, it is her fault. If her husband is just a big wimp and she is forced to lead, it is his fault. I do think that SOME women undermine their husband, rather than affirm as the Bible commands.

I can buy that, however, I still lay some blame on the man for letting her be the dominant one. If he was the leader, then there wouldn't be room at the top for two.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Pragmatist

I don't think you are supposed to be submissive to men other than your husband. God gave women brains also, and it wasn't as a decoration.

Exactly!

I have a specific situtation I would like to discuss, but I'd rather not on a public forum. I've just got to find a solution to deal with it.

[Elizabeth]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

So is that the woman's fault? Maybe that's what we are trying to discuss here. Why are the men so willing to give the lead to women?
I didn't have a choice in my marriage - my husband was the leader and there was no question in my mind that he was. We discussed things together, but his say was final and most usually we always agreed with whatever the end decision was. I never tried to overrule him and never dreamed to go against him.

I have wondered the same thing!

In my marriage, my husband has no problem letting me know he is the head of the house!

I often wondered why other men don't do the same thing when married to a woman that likes to take charge.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind

We live in a society where women are made to be "equal with men and so should have equal rights." Yet, with the advent of TV and the dumbing down of society, we have the "Al Bundy approach to women" prevalent in society today.

This is not a sensual discussion, but one of real men being real men. The Promise Keepers Movement was partially correct, that the church is in dire need of real men today. Sadly, Daniel you seem to only want to take this to the gutter.

I've agreed w/ the points made by many on the emasculation of men in today's society ... I even provided a link to a group that is combatting this mindset in the church .... GodMen ... which, by the way, I'm a part of ...

Lest we forget .... I didn't bring up the "Jesus is My Boyfriend" discussion ...or suggest sensuality in today's worship, or imply many of today's music ministers are queer .... I did challenge the agenda behind it.

Carry on ....