Timmy I have a similar question to you out of curiosity. Did you immediately become agnostic when you were in the AoG or did you go through some years to become an agnostic?
It took some time. I remained a Christian for a few years after I left the AG.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
yikes, the contortions we go through just to justify ourselves, what?
Oh, you mean the soul searching we go through in order to carefully consider our lives' path, and acting upon a realization that I innocently bought into a fraud? Is that what you characterize as, "contortions to justify?"
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Originally Posted by shazeep
:Why does this read as though your consciousness has been contracted, rather than expanded, I wonder?
Only because you choose to "read" it that way. My consciousness has been expanded thanks to finally accepting the primacy of reason rather than the prescientific worldview based upon superstitions and invented invisible worlds. Consider how the AGE of Enlightenment (roughly the 17th Century) also had much to do with dumping a lot of religion's influence in favor of reason and its corollary--science. I guess you think that century should be characterized as similar "contortions to justify" , eh?
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Originally Posted by shazeep
congrats on dumping the religion and all, but contemplating Scripture should have led you there sooner rather than later anyway.
Oh, you were led by men then, too-my bad.
Yes, the same kind of men who (last I noticed) also wrote your source of god information, which you obviously spin to suit your own kind of non-literalist interpretations, but still derived from ancient superstitious men.
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Originally Posted by shazeep
And please take this as intended-a presumptuous, faith-preserving, fake insight
Well, verbal acrobatics are not soul-searching...and don't take it personally, I'm sure I do it, too...and heck, I knew that established religion was a lie when I was 10! Didn't really decipher it from Scripture for several years after, but whatever, it's in there. And congrats on your new pov, may it serve you well. A forum is surely not the best place to experience another person's heart.
Well, verbal acrobatics are not soul-searching...and don't take it personally, I'm sure I do it, too...and heck, I knew that established religion was a lie when I was 10! Didn't really decipher it from Scripture for several years after, but whatever, it's in there. And congrats on your new pov, may it serve you well. A forum is surely not the best place to experience another person's heart.
Are you of the opinion that the Bible is not a religious book? That it is in opposition to all religions, and not just against all religions except for the one that it, itself, advocates and establishes? Do you follow or practice a religion?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
You're the one, *not I*, who has apparently equated the two! But if you think mere words are not sufficient to describe beliefs and experiences, then maybe you likewise ought not use words to describe your (or anyone's) viewpoint.
How many people have been murdered at the hands of atheistic and/or "secular" governments? 100 million? 200 million? In the last 150 years alone?
Even if someone could arrive at a number of people killed within a religious war and compared with the number of people killed in a "non-religious" war, correlation does NOT mean causation. For example, the Bosnian war had a religious component to it (Christian regions vs. Muslim regions) but it was a territorial and ethnic conflict according to most.
Hitler was a baptized and confirmed Catholic (not practicing, obviously.) And lotsa German armor and most Nazi belt buckles featured the engraved motto, "Gott Mitt Uns." (God with us.) But no responsible historian calls WWII a religious war. And neither did WWII happen in the name of atheism, nor in the name of secularism.
Speaking of quasi-religious influence, a reported slogan for the 16th century Conquistadors was the "3 Gs": "God, Gold, and Glory!" One or all 3 of those were used to justify the genocide of millions of Mexican and Central American Indians. Was all that a "religious" war? Don't think so, but their religious worldview was obviously a component.
And, let's not conflate SECULARISM with Atheism. Our own Revolutionary War had a demonstrably "secular" result, if not also secular goal, considering that our Constitution purposefully avoids the mention of any god and INSTEAD specifies "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion." Such seems the practical essence of secularism in many places; "Have your own god and do your own religion , but do not use the public's government to promote it or finance it."
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Originally Posted by Esaias
How many people have been murdered at the hands of atheistic and/or "secular" governments? 100 million? 200 million? In the last 150 years alone?
Are you of the opinion that the Bible is not a religious book? That it is in opposition to all religions, and not just against all religions except for the one that it, itself, advocates and establishes? Do you follow or practice a religion?
Yes, I am of that opinion, chiefly due to the several parables that describe those who have eschewed religion, and yet are considered justified. Plus the constant lambasting of the religious in Scripture. But I also see how hard-won this pov is, and how others raised in the est'd church might fail to come to a similar conclusion. After all, deciphering is often difficult for a neo, and it is natural-in defiance of Scripture-to turn to more experienced others for the last word.
And it may come down to ones definitions; while I grasp why "God = religion" to many or most, for whatever reason I am of the opinion that religion involves our pointless efforts to describe and draw closer to God, neither of which is effective. There are even verses for this.
You're the one, *not I*, who has apparently equated the two! But if you think mere words are not sufficient to describe beliefs and experiences, then maybe you likewise ought not use words to describe your (or anyone's) viewpoint.
Um, no, it was all you; I was just trying to clarify it-and Ty for the advice, I'll hafta take a look at that!
Straw man????? Communism (atheist) killed more than Christians ever have. here's your strrawman http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bla...k_of_Communism However, I'm glad you tolerate us enough to be a part of this forum. lol
yikes, the contortions we go through just to justify ourselves, what?
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