Roxanne, nobody is suggesting we forsake teaching them about a personal relationship with Jesus, nor giving them drugs or alcohol and such. However, one has their head in the sand if they think the ways of yesterday work in today's world. If that were the case, the Catholic churches would still be as full as they used to be, but even they can't keep people in the church any longer.
What worked yesterday was modern in yesterday's world. We live in today and it's time we made it work for today. Kids are being saved and staying in the church because we make it about them and not about us.
Not so. Kids are being saved and staying in the church because we make it about Jesus (not about us or them). Is it possible to have variety in HOW Jesus is presented? Sure, but with the foundation being a relationship with Jesus, NOT having the 'newest thing' to entertain the kids (or their parents). Sorry, I can't see how this 'stepping' is anything more than just a new way to indulge and entertain the flesh.
Wow, some people seem to be intentionally missing the analogy. I know they are not that dense. Let me see if I can break it down for you.
Sis. Roxanne's mother in law brought the harmful things from outside the home into the home to keep the boys from going outside the home to do them.
Sis. Roxanne feels that we are bringing in harmful (worldly) things from outside the church into the church to keep our kids from going outside the church to do them.
One doesn't make any more sense than the other.
I am not taking a position here... simply clarifying for the intentionally obtuse!
You just proved my point. See, when I was a kid, there weren't any options for youth. I never ever heard of Youth Congress untill I was in my mid 30's, although I had been in church all my life. I went to youth camp and that was it. We weren't allowed to fellowship even with nearby churches, and those churches that allowed their young people to do things like bowling and skating were thought of as 'going worldly'. Yes, this was back in my day. It was forbidden for us to associate with people from churches that allowed such worldly behavior.
Guess what? The young people from my church gradually left, and I can count on one hand those that are left in the church from about 50 to this day. I can only recall one youth who never got 'out of church' before coming back in, and the rest of us who are in were out for several years. The youth from the worldly churches, while they certainly lost some, retained many of them and I know several who are active in the church and ministry to this day.
See, it was thought that bowling and skating was worldly and the churches were bringing the world in for their kids. It's the same thoughts that are being posted on this thread about the events taking place in today's churches, but like those back in my day, some of you aren't seeing the big picture.
This is a different world, yes, even in the church, than when I was a kid. You show me a church thriving with youth (and even adults) that does nothing for entertainment outside of the usual church services three times a week and I'll show you a dead, dull, boring church that will lose most of it's people within ten years.
The world is full of things to do for our children. Just because we have fun in church doesn't mean we are bringing the world in, but rather, we are pushing the world out.
And I grew up in a youth group that brought the world in for the kids (movies, entertainment, etc), and, guess what? All but a couple of those in my youth group backslid. Some are not serving God to this day.
What is the issue? Not what you do or don't do 'for the kids'. It is what we do, or don't do, for Jesus.
I've seen it. If we really have the goods, why are we not leading the way? Why do we let the "denominal" (the def. of that word is nothing near what we make it out to be) people test the waters with music and the next 'program'? They should be following us. Am I missing something here?
Disclaimer:
Program doesn't mean program, it means whatever I think it means in my own mind
Unfortunately, we have folks in our midst who, like the Israelites did, look at what the heatherns around them are doing, and they end up telling the man of God, "Make us a king, that we may be like the other nations." The children of Israel had lost the ark of God because previously sinful leaders (Eli's boys, Hophni and Phineas), and they had apparently become tired of having God's way of leadership, so they wanted what they saw around them. This analogy plays out far more often than it should in some pentecostal circles, and THIS is why some in our midst copy the trinitarians' programs.
*BREAKING NEWS*
Not everything new in our culture is "worldly" and damaging to the Christian lifestyle! There are harmless trends that can be used to help reach the younger generations.
*BACK TO YOUR REGULARLY SCHEDULED BICKERINGS!*
You could have said this a long time ago!!!
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
You are talking about MY youth group in MY church.
Who do you think you are to say that this youth pastor (that being ME) as well as my pastor,
QUOTE:
"no longer teach what it is to have a personal relationship with Jesus that comes through prayer and personal devotion..."
Have you been to my church? Have you heard me preach and teach? Have you heard my pastor preach and teach?
All because we have a stick drama team and this sort of thing doesn't float your "personal conviction boat" you are going to make false accusations like this against ministers that you don't even know?
Go get the beam out of your own eye before you come inspecting ours for specks!
Hold on a second yourself, woman!
I was addressing a mindset, not a specific youth group or church. So, I can give you the benefit of the doubt and say you just read my post through your defensiveness. If that isn't what happened, then I daresay either conviction came your way, or you are just too self focused to see principle in discussion.
Now, shall we discuss the carnal mindset that says that we must have a church and/or youth group that is centered around people rather than Jesus?
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People who are always looking for fault,can find it easily all they have to do,is look into their mirror.
There they can find plenty of fault.
Not so. Kids are being saved and staying in the church because we make it about Jesus (not about us or them). Is it possible to have variety in HOW Jesus is presented? Sure, but with the foundation being a relationship with Jesus, NOT having the 'newest thing' to entertain the kids (or their parents). Sorry, I can't see how this 'stepping' is anything more than just a new way to indulge and entertain the flesh.
Roxanne, do you attend a dead, dull, boring church? Does your church lack forms of entertainment that indulge the flesh? Does your Sunday School curriculum date back to the 1940's?
Unless you have church like Paul did, anything you and your church does is 'the newest thing' to bring about variety in how Jesus is presented, and at one time, when it was really 'new', it wasn't seen in a good light.
I remember when drums weren't looked highly upon in a church setting, but 25 years later, it's not a big deal. I remember when churches that had cameras to tape videos were seen as compromisers and 'going charasmatic'. Today, we are high tech! And it's a good thing!
Ever been to a Christian concert, like the McGruders? Did you go for the entertainment and indulge your flesh, or was your intention to go because Jesus was there? Would you attend such an event if they couldn't sing worth a lick?
Just asking.
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
And I grew up in a youth group that brought the world in for the kids (movies, entertainment, etc), and, guess what? All but a couple of those in my youth group backslid. Some are not serving God to this day.
What is the issue? Not what you do or don't do 'for the kids'. It is what we do, or don't do, for Jesus.
Roxanne, it wasn't the movies and entertainment that did it, it was lack of teaching about who Jesus is and developing a personal relationship. This must be why you see things as you do, but that's not the case with all. It's sad when people replace Jesus instead of include Him in the activities.
__________________
I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
And I grew up in a youth group that brought the world in for the kids (movies, entertainment, etc), and, guess what? All but a couple of those in my youth group backslid. Some are not serving God to this day.
What is the issue? Not what you do or don't do 'for the kids'. It is what we do, or don't do, for Jesus.
My kids were involved in a youth group that at one time had almost 100 kids involved. Today, of all those kids who were under the umbrella of that ministry there are only 4 - maybe 6 serving God. They never had movies or any worldly entertainment. It was pretty exciting at times any way - but even with the very "conservative" approach all those apostolic kids were lost to our movement.
Many have gone on to become successful in terms of a secular career. Most have fallen into some sort of despair or hurtful circumstance. Almost none of them ever darken the doorway of any type of church. They are completely burned out with "religion" - Apostolic religion in particular. And they were in the midst of all of the "conservative" UPC camps, revivals and etc.
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