If You Sin Are You Lost Until You Repent?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Costeon

If my children disobey, I of course don't immediately boot them from the family. I do discipline them. I suppose, God forbid, that they could choose one day to not be a part of the family and cut of our relationship, but as the father, I would do everything I could to maintain the relationship.

Well, that is what you think you would do, not what you know you will do. Because Jesus pointed to the broadway and the wide gate and said the lionshare are going through that door. Only a small amount will make it through the hard navigating path and almost closed door. Your children wet their pants you aren't shocked, or upset because you expect it. But when they are in their 30s you will think something is medically wrong with them.
If a 4 year old says I hate you, is totally different from a 45 year old saying they hate you. Agreed?

[Costeon]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Why?

Because we are not perfect and are liable to not allow God to work in our lives every moment of every day for our entire life?

You may be a great follower of Christ, but you are not going to live your whole life sinlessly. Of course, as I said, we strive for perfection. But again, when we fail to live perfectly, are you lost at that moment and remain so till you seek God for forgiveness?

[Costeon]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Well, that is what you think you would do, not what you know you will do. Because Jesus pointed to the broadway and the wide gate and said the lionshare are going through that door. Only a small amount will make it through the hard navigating path and almost closed door. Your children wet their pants you aren't shocked, or upset because you expect it. But when they are in their 30s you will think something is medically wrong with them.
If a 4 year old says I hate you, is totally different from a 45 year old saying they hate you. Agreed?

I agree it is a process--one that continues till we die in Christ or the Lord comes again. Only then will we truly be blameless. But thank God that he regards us now as blameless because our lives are hidden with Christ in God! So all true believers, in all their various stages of development and maturity, are all regarded as above reproach in His sight. Praise God!

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Costeon

The goal is sinless perfection: John wrote 1 John in part so they would not sin. But thank God,

when we do sin

we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous (1 John 2:1).

Excuse me, what English translation when we DO sin?

It doesn't say that in any English translation I have ever seen. It say if we sin.

Maybe that is part of the problem, you can't wrap your mind around the New Testament making the claim that it wanted their people to depart from sin. To have a nature change, to go from being a wolf that ate sheep. To a wolf who lied down next to sheep.

1 John 2:1

New International Version
My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.

New Living Translation
My dear children, I am writing this to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate who pleads our case before the Father. He is Jesus Christ, the one who is truly righteous.

English Standard Version
My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

Berean Study Bible
My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate before the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.

Berean Literal Bible
My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you might not sin. And if anyone should sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the Righteous One.

New American Standard Bible
My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;

King James Bible
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Christian Standard Bible
My little children, I am writing you these things so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father--Jesus Christ the righteous one.

Contemporary English Version
My children, I am writing this so you won't sin. But if you do sin, Jesus Christ always does the right thing, and he will speak to the Father for us.

Good News Translation
I am writing this to you, my children, so that you will not sin; but if anyone does sin, we have someone who pleads with the Father on our behalf--Jesus Christ, the righteous one.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
My little children, I am writing you these things so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father--Jesus Christ the Righteous One.

International Standard Version
My little children, I'm writing these things to you so that you might not sin. Yet if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus, the Messiah, one who is righteous.

NET Bible
(My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin.) But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous One,

New Heart English Bible
My little children, I write these things to you so that you may not sin. If anyone sins, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ, the righteous.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Children, I write these things to you so that you will not sin, and if a person will sin, we have “The Redeemer of the accursed” with The Father - Yeshua The Messiah, The Righteous One.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
My dear children, I'm writing this to you so that you will not sin. Yet, if anyone does sin, we have Jesus Christ, who has God's full approval. He speaks on our behalf when we come into the presence of the Father.

New American Standard 1977
My little children, I am writing these things to you that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;

Jubilee Bible 2000
My little children, I write these things unto you, that ye sin not; and if anyone has sinned, we have an Advocate before the Father, Jesus, the righteous Christ;

King James 2000 Bible
My little children, these things write I unto you, that you sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

American King James Version
My little children, these things write I to you, that you sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

American Standard Version
My little children, these things write I unto you that ye may not sin. And if any man sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Douay-Rheims Bible
My little children, these things I write to you, that you may not sin. But if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the just:

Darby Bible Translation
My children, these things I write to you in order that ye may not sin; and if any one sin, we have a patron with the Father, Jesus Christ [the] righteous;

English Revised Version
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye may not sin. And if any man sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Webster's Bible Translation
My little children, these things I write to you, that ye sin not. And if any man sinneth, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Weymouth New Testament
Dear children, I write thus to you in order that you may not sin. If any one sins, we have an Advocate with the Father--Jesus Christ the righteous;

World English Bible
My little children, I write these things to you so that you may not sin. If anyone sins, we have a Counselor with the Father, Jesus Christ, the righteous.

Young's Literal Translation
My little children, these things I write to you, that ye may not sin: and if any one may sin, an advocate we have with the Father, Jesus Christ, a righteous one,

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Costeon

I agree it is a process--one that continues till we die in Christ or the Lord comes again. Only then will we truly be blameless. But thank God that he regards us now as blameless because our lives are hidden with Christ in God! So all true believers, in all their various stages of development and maturity, are all regarded as above reproach in His sight. Praise God!

The first century Christian was told to be blameless Philippians 2:15.
You are telling us that only through one's own death, burial, and resurrection can one be saved? We never get our nature changed or be born from above as God's offspring. But we remain natural carnal and wicked waiting for our own blood to be shed, buried, and resurrect. Yet, the New Testament teaches none of that.

Genesis 6:9

These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

Philippians 2:15

That ye may be BLAMELESS and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;




Philippians 3:6

Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, BLAMELESS.


Luke 1:6 And they were both RIGHTEOUS before God, walking in ALL the commandments and ordinances of the Lord BLAMELESS.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Costeon

Because we are not perfect and are liable to not allow God to work in our lives every moment of every day for our entire life?

1 John 3:6 means what?

Originally Posted by Costeon

You may be a great follower of Christ, but you are not going to live your whole life sinlessly. Of course, as I said, we strive for perfection. But again, when we fail to live perfectly, are you lost at that moment and remain so till you seek God for forgiveness?

Like my wife said, you are as lost as a baked potato.

Listen this is going no where, if you are sinning every day you need to get saved. Striving for maturity? When the Bible says little children, guess what? That isn't you or me. We need to have been getting something on the go a long time ago. It is called the Holy Ghost. Which sadly a lot of people don't have. Not one smidgen, not even a jeeeda, jeeeeda, jeeeda. Therefore they live a religious life based on works where they struggling to do the religion. Just like a Muslim, or a Catholic. They could even be nice people, but they are still caught in a struggling against the weapons of their own mind. No Prince of Peace, because they have no Holy Ghost to comfort them. therefore the Bible verses about go sin no more is a pie in the sky, and unattainable carrot on a stick where no matter how much you want it you can't have it. We must have the head of the Church Jesus Christ through His Spirit to navigate the way home.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

In the immortal words of Sister Benincasa "lost as a potato."

Now, please forgive me, but where did you explain 1 John 3:3 in the light of Matthew 5:8? Also could you explain 1 John 3:6 which correlates with Hebrews 10:26. Thank you in advance I enjoyed the thread with you and Elder Perkins. This thread though seems to be creeping very slowly.I guess shearing sheep is more your forte? Just playing with you.

Coeston?

[Esaias]

I see Costeon doesn't like my questions?

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Excellent

The real problem is that these individuals just don't have a clich one in awhile. But they actually do practice what they preach. They live a life of sin under Jesus name. They departed from us so they would show all of us that they are not of us 1 John 2:19. I was in a Bible book store in Fort Lauderdale with another minister and he was having a discussion with another individual about Saved and Sinning. They were going back and forth for a while and the owner a Seventh Day Adventist piped up and told the guy who believed in Saved and Sinning, that his focus was on the wrong thing. The focus was on works, and sin. I knew the guy for years who believed in Saved and Sinning. He had major issues with Broward and Dade county prostitutes. Once told me that he had a ministry to the prostitutes. Which I told him that ministry with drugs addicts doesn't include doing drugs. He didn't like that, but he always knew that I spoke my mind "in love" Anyway, the truth of the matter is that the Seventh Day Adventist nailed it, these were the real legalists (in the sense how they misuse that word for us) They were under the law, because they were not under Christ.

The reprobate Martin Luther's letter to Melanchthon;

“If you are a preacher of mercy, do not preach an imaginary but the true mercy. If the mercy is true, you must therefore bear the true, not an imaginary sin. God does not save those who are only imaginary sinners. Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong (sin boldly), but let your trust in Christ be stronger, and rejoice in Christ who is the victor over sin, death, and the world. We will commit sins while we are here, for this life is not a place where justice resides. We, however, says Peter (2 Peter 3:13) are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth where justice will reign. It suffices that through God’s glory we have recognized the Lamb who takes away the sin of the world. No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day. Do you think such an exalted Lamb paid merely a small price with a meager sacrifice for our sins? Pray hard for you are quite a sinner.”


The reformations pendulum swing from Catholicism's Repent, and flee from sin, bordered on Antinomianism. The whole sinner till your own death, burial, and resurrection subtracts from the power of the Cross, the Blood of Christ and the power of the Spirit. 1st John 3:3 wasn't even touched per my request. But I read two reprobates quoted? John Calvin and Martin Luther? Two baby baptizing sin boldly reprobates?

Well, that is because the two giants who came to the shores of the Americas were Spain (Catholics) and English, Dutch, and Germans (Reformists.)

Sadly Pentecostals are sifted through those two filters. Saved and Sinning, more than Once Saved Always Saved is throughout Pentecost. It blew my mind when I first came around some Pentecostals who would say, "as long as we are in this sinful flesh."

I soon found out what that meant, and boy, they weren't playing.

1 John 3:8 says that those who sin under Jesus name are of the Devil, not JESUS. 1 John 3:7 the writer is warning new converts to stay away from the Saved and Sinning group. That they are not to believe those who tell them they can't do what is right to be as righteous as Jesus. That's what it says, but sadly the Saved and Sinning guys and gals don't want to deal with those verses because then they would have to admit that all the years they had been sitting on a pew was done without Jesus. They struggled, they blamed the church family, the blamed the pastor, the elders, their spouses, their parents. When the blame was totally on them. They homa ma shonda, screamed, and cried. Always in the altar, always snot bubbles and tears. Not repenting mind you. That's not what those tears were for, but the tears were because they knew they didn't want to change. They didn't want to change who they are. I would watch a friend of mine crying, praying, snot bubbles, and sweat. But he would go to the prostitutes, smoke crack like a champion. He cheated on his wife and little children. His wife stayed with him, until her brother in law took him out of her house and brought him to house to live in the back room to dry out Prayed and fasted with him every night, and he would cry, speak in tongues, cry, weep, scream, and go right back into hell. You can chatter like a bad bearing, me tie yo tie all night long, and be so so wrong. Because my man's tears were because he was never ever going to change. The Saved and Sinning away, just can't get past their lust of the flesh. It is worst than a crack demon. Their flesh isn't just a monkey on their back, but King Kong Vs Godzilla. They look pious, clean, and third or fourth generation Pennycost. But, their mind hasn't be changed for Christ. 1 John 3 is like an ecclesiastical ICBM heading for the target. Psalm 19:13 was the song we are to sing, but there are so many who want to do the exact opposite.

Martin Luther said that? Doesn't surprise me, just shows that the root of reformed theology comes from the pit of hell.

Then they just grab some scripture out of Ephesians 2 and make it the mantra for the whole New Testament. But the thing is I don't know of one parable Jesus taught that taught unconditional salvation. Maybe someone could help me on this, but wherever that theology came from didn't come from Jesus' teaching at all.

I was thinking about this yesterday, how the reformers went and grabbed Ephesians 2, and did that, but Jesus taught conditional salvation in every parable I recall. They usually take some out of context scriptures out of John to prove Jesus taught something that went along with Ephesians 2:8-9.

Thanks for that info Elder, you always give great insight!

[1ofthechosen]