Should standards be an issue when witnessing?

[dizzyde]

Originally Posted by staysharp

Sorry if I offended you. My remarks were intended to inform, not offend. Having said that, I'm glad you found a great church. You made a trade off. You conform because your'e being fed. Which I have no problem with. As long as you are honest as you are. My original thread was on honesty and how the lies destroy our children. Evidently, the original intent was lost in the translation.

God bless you, may God give you great joy and may the prince of peace dwell in your heart.

Thanks for that, and I am sorry if I have been over-sensitive. It has been a rough day, family tragedy, and I think I probably should have stayed off the computer.

[staysharp]

Originally Posted by dizzyde

I can deal with this. I understand what you are saying. I just don't understand why some people who leave are so bitter and angry. I get that some people have been severely mistreated and it is wrong. But do you honestly believe that we have the corner market on nut-jobs? They are out there in every religion. The thing is, I have family members who have gone completely "charismatic", and they love to moan about how "wrong they been done". One of them actually wrote a book about it. I'm sorry, but I was there. Had a front row seat. The only ones who had bad attitudes and bad spirits were them. Anyway...

Well, I've had family that left too and in all actuality, it's hard sometimes to understand others when we are not in their position. I have found that when I don't quite understand, to stop and put myself in their shoes.

You say they are the only ones with bad attitudes, this may be right, however, maybe you could help them heal. Love is a two way street.

[dizzyde]

Originally Posted by staysharp

Well, I've had family that left too and in all actuality, it's hard sometimes to understand others when we are not in their position. I have found that when I don't quite understand, to stop and put myself in their shoes.

You say they are the only ones with bad attitudes, this may be right, however, maybe you could help them heal. Love is a two way street.

Oh, I love them, spend lot's of time with them, don't judge them, other than to be irritated internally at the moaning that still goes on 15 years later. But, it's all good.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by staysharp

I reread and still don't see what you are talking about. That post was talking to Rhoni, not LadyChocolate. I honestly don't see any remark that lumped her in anything. She was not in the conversation. At no time do I mention 'all apostolics".

Then you might want to read LC's response to your post to Rhoni.

You implied that all who hold standards are "this" or "that". You haven't been qualifying your statements about those who hold to dress standards and are proud because of it and those who hold to dress standards and are not proud.

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...1&postcount=82

If you can recognize the places in which you offended her, you may understand better what I've been trying to say from Romans 14 and 1 Tim 4.

[LadyChocolate]

Originally Posted by staysharp

Instead of attacking me, why don't you dissect what I've said and tell me why you disagree. I would love to hear your point of view without all the drama. Sincerely, tell me why what I've said is warped and not true. Don't attack me, I'm not attacking you, let's stick to the facts.


This is a great question to ponder?

Is it healthy for our children to impose unbiblical standards by which they will experience rejection from their peers? If so, tell me why?

Any time you teach a child to stand up for something they are going to find rejection.....Whether it's standards or not. We are teaching our children to stay pure and not engage in premarital relations, and in this day and age, they are going to be made fun of....So do we teach them to go along with the crowd? Of course not... So the argument about making children feel a certain way is not valid here....

[dizzyde]

Originally Posted by staysharp

Children want to be accepted, this is the fundamental developmental need in our soul. By not fitting in, they begin to internalize this as their fault. This is why little Suzie will go to mommie and ask her why she can't wear pants at school. When not properly given a valid reason for the differing behavior, mommy will make one up to justify this behavior so as not to be wrong in their actions. Hence, the old adage, "because I said so". Children are very perceptive, even more than adults. You can't fool a child.

Modesty is one thing. Telling children their special because they don't dress like others is devastating. This is why children rebel. Not because their rebellious, but because they find acceptance in what they gravitate towards.


Extreme unbiblical standards separate families, cause children to be rejected by their parents, bring confusion, create spiritual pride, and a whole list of socially dysfunctional behaviors. It's no wonder people think some of us are weird, because we are.

Originally Posted by staysharp

Is it healthy for our children to impose unbiblical standards by which they will experience rejection from their peers? If so, tell me why?

Originally Posted by LadyChocolate

Any time you teach a child to stand up for something they are going to find rejection.....Whether it's standards or not. We are teaching our children to stay pure and not engage in premarital relations, and in this day and age, they are going to be made fun of....So do we teach them to go along with the crowd? Of course not... So the argument about making children feel a certain way is not valid here....

I have a story on that subject. My daughter was a vibrant Christian girl all through school. She was never unpopular, or belittled or mocked. She was popular and involved, was even elected to the student body council.

She was selected to be sent to a Kiwanis leadership camp, and received a scholarship from them. Actually, she was sent to a state university on full scholarship. She sang the National Anthem at sports events, was in school plays and musicals, and made National Honor society. All while leading campus Christian club bible studies, and being in both the youth and adult choirs at church, and also doing community volunteer work. Yes, she followed standards, even more than what a lot of people would have expected. Certainly more than I would have.

She is now 20. She recently ran into several kids that she knew in high school, people she had never talked about religion to, and they all told her the same thing. How much her walk with God had witnessed to them in high school and how glad they were that she hadn't changed...

[staysharp]

Originally Posted by LadyChocolate

Any time you teach a child to stand up for something they are going to find rejection.....Whether it's standards or not. We are teaching our children to stay pure and not engage in premarital relations, and in this day and age, they are going to be made fun of....So do we teach them to go along with the crowd? Of course not... So the argument about making children feel a certain way is not valid here....

Reread my post. What part of unbiblical do you not understand? I said unbiblical standards. Chastity is a biblical standard. Purity is a biblical standard. Fornication is a biblical standard. I am talking about unbiblical standards which are forced on the children by lying. Lies like..."if you cut your hair, your going to hell". Or If you wear pants, your backslidden. Or If you wear makeup, your a Jezebel.

These defenses are lies. Reread. My original post to Rhoni was dealing with misleading defenses forced upon the children. God bless.

P.S. I have two beautiful daughters who've made it through their teenage years with great success. I admire both for their spirit, integrity and loyalty to Christ. However, I have never told them a lie about why they held unbiblical standards.

When asked, I told them because we love the body of Christ and seek not to offend others who may not understand our liberties. This is a truthful statement. I don't mean to hark, but it appears you are not thoroughly reading my posts.

[staysharp]

Originally Posted by dizzyde

I have a story on that subject. My daughter was a vibrant Christian girl all through school. She was never unpopular, or belittled or mocked. She was popular and involved, was even elected to the student body council.

She was selected to be sent to a Kiwanis leadership camp, and received a scholarship from them. Actually, she was sent to a state university on full scholarship. She sang the National Anthem at sports events, was in school plays and musicals, and made National Honor society. All while leading campus Christian club bible studies, and being in both the youth and adult choirs at church, and also doing community volunteer work. Yes, she followed standards, even more than what a lot of people would have expected. Certainly more than I would have.

She is now 20. She recently ran into several kids that she knew in high school, people she had never talked about religion to, and they all told her the same thing. How much her walk with God had witnessed to them in high school and how glad they were that she hadn't changed...

That's a beautiful testimony. Your key words are "her walk with God". This is her testimony and evidently her spirit was pure before them.

[LadyChocolate]

Originally Posted by staysharp

Reread my post. What part of unbiblical do you not understand? I said unbiblical standards. Chastity is a biblical standard. Purity is a biblical standard. Fornication is a biblical standard. I am talking about unbiblical standards which are forced on the children by lying. Lies like..."if you cut your hair, your going to hell". Or If you wear pants, your backslidden. Or If you wear makeup, your a Jezebel.

These defenses are lies. Reread. My original post to Rhoni was dealing with misleading defenses forced upon the children. God bless.

P.S. I have two beautiful daughters who've made it through their teenage years with great success. I admire both for their spirit, integrity and loyalty to Christ. However, I have never told them a lie about why they held unbiblical standards.

When asked, I told them because we love the body of Christ and seek not to offend others who may not understand our liberties. This is a truthful statement. I don't mean to hark, but it appears you are not thoroughly reading my posts.

I understood exactly what you said.... I have a problem with painting everyone with the same brush....Just because I am an ultra conservative does not mean I judge everyone and look down on them.... And also, I, as an standard keeper, I believe it to be biblical. Therefore to say that it's unhealthy for us to "mistreat" our children really ticks me off..... If you don't believe it to be biblical, fine..... Do what you wish....But don't say that all conservatives blast everyone into hell because other's don't see it like we do. That was my whole point from the beginning....

I also understand that you were talking to Rhoni but this a open forum and if you wanted something private or didn't want anyone to respond to your post, then you should keep it private.....

My arguments are not about standards but the attitude by those who keep them or don't keep them.... Don't put everyone into the same category.....Like I said before, I have read a lot of post from liberals that bash standards, standard keepers and the ministry that teaches them....I don't put all liberals into that category because I realize that many out there love the ministry. I can't call them all rebellious because they all aren't. Sorry if you were around the judgemental conservatives... Guess what? I was too and I couldn't stand it.....I don't force lies on my children. I do teach them the Word of God....In fact, my children know better than to say that someone is going to hell for this or that... They know that God is the judge and we are not....But I have an obligation to teach them what we believe.

With that being said.... I am hungry and I must go eat my mexican food! Know hard feeling here! enjoy your night!

[tv1a]

Unfortunately you are in the small minority of standard bearers with good attitudes. Line up 100 standard keepers and you would be hard pressed to to find a dozen who do not put their noses up in the air like their junk doesn't stink. From what I've observed, in your comments earlier in the thread I think people saw the love of Jesus, not the clothing you wore. If I were a betting man, I would lay money that the person who asked you about Jesus would have asked you about Jesus if you were wearing a modest non-standardized outfit.

I noticed something in your post I would appreciate clarification. In the following post you said you believe standards to be biblical. Does your use of the word biblical mean the same as salvational? Can something be biblical in your opinion and not salvational?

Originally Posted by LadyChocolate

I understood exactly what you said.... I have a problem with painting everyone with the same brush....Just because I am an ultra conservative does not mean I judge everyone and look down on them.... And also, I, as an standard keeper, I believe it to be biblical. Therefore to say that it's unhealthy for us to "mistreat" our children really ticks me off..... If you don't believe it to be biblical, fine..... Do what you wish....But don't say that all conservatives blast everyone into hell because other's don't see it like we do. That was my whole point from the beginning....

I also understand that you were talking to Rhoni but this a open forum and if you wanted something private or didn't want anyone to respond to your post, then you should keep it private.....

My arguments are not about standards but the attitude by those who keep them or don't keep them.... Don't put everyone into the same category.....Like I said before, I have read a lot of post from liberals that bash standards, standard keepers and the ministry that teaches them....I don't put all liberals into that category because I realize that many out there love the ministry. I can't call them all rebellious because they all aren't. Sorry if you were around the judgemental conservatives... Guess what? I was too and I couldn't stand it.....I don't force lies on my children. I do teach them the Word of God....In fact, my children know better than to say that someone is going to hell for this or that... They know that God is the judge and we are not....But I have an obligation to teach them what we believe.

With that being said.... I am hungry and I must go eat my mexican food! Know hard feeling here! enjoy your night!