Covenant Apostolic Congrgations Intl

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

If your looking for scripture and verse that states “The lake of fire, which is Jerusalem”, sorry I cant find one.

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

I arrived at that conclusion, based on the scripture regarding who the Lord was coming to judge.

The Lord was coming to judge the nation that rejected him.

This verse seems to indicate otherwise.

Revelation 20

[15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

[1 God]

Tithesmeister, If Jerusalem was the lake of fire as Nicodemus says, then the Jews were cast into it from around the world. I thought they were drug out of it and sent packing?

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

This verse seems to indicate otherwise.

Revelation 20

[15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

No it doesn’t. Where was this destruction taking place?

[Tithesmeister]

Brother Nicodemus, I apologize for not responding to this earlier. Allow me . . .

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Not false accusations, I’ll stand by what I posted.

I understand that you stand by what you post. Your position seems to be right in your own eyes, just because you’re right. I’m asking for scriptural support for your position. You seem to believe that you are above all that.

The apostle Paul wasn’t above all that. He said that the saints at Berea were more noble than the saints at Thessolonica because they studied the scriptures to see if what he was teaching them was actually true.

Acts 17
[11] These (the Berean saints) were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Brother, you are quite opposite Paul. You seem to ridicule me and others for asking for scripture references that support your position. Maybe a little self examination is in order?

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

You seem to be caught on one word. You don’t care about the fact that the ministers God sent were to stay in their home, and those men were now dependent on their generosity.

I actually HAVE invited men of God to stay in my home. I’m glad to house them and feed them. Perhaps even give them an offering to send them on their way. So you are wrong about this. I have done this thing exactly and will most likely do it again. The problem with your doctrine is that this isn’t tithe. It doesn’t mention tithe. It doesn’t mention one tenth. These were Jews who were already giving tithes (if it applied to them). Their tithes were going to the Levitical tribe, the widows, the fatherless and the aliens, as the law commanded.

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

What does your generosity look like?

It looks. . . Generous.

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

What does giving mean to you?

We are told to give as unto the Lord. This phrase is often used when the offering is taken. What does it mean to give as unto the Lord? Matthew 25 gives specific examples. Here’s the short version. Please study the full version.

Matthew 25

[44] Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
[45] Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
[46] And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

I understand that this is not what you want to hear, but it is the instructions of Jesus.

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

You spend a lot of time on this doctrine of yours, yet you have not been specific enough to answer what giving is?

Brother, it is NOT my doctrine. It is God’s doctrine. I’m just trying to live by it. In regards to what giving is? Read the second half of Matthew 25. It is pretty specific about what giving to Jesus is all about. Ironically it doesn’t mention tithing to the pastor. Jesus must have forgotten about the poor pastor! Sorry about that!

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Do you have a guideline to give, do you give as the Lord has blessed?

Yes. I have already mentioned Matthew 25. Otherwise I’m about giving as the Lord lays it on my heart. It appears to be something we can agree on.

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Do you give on a whim. We went over this issue again and again. And you still bring it up every chance you get.

See above.

To be continued . . .

[Tithesmeister]

Continued . . .

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

Your like people I know that don’t believe in the Holy Ghost speaking with tongues, because Jesus never did it. You look for the exact phrase “all tithe belongs to the 5 fold ministry”. And because it’s not in there you’ll condemn a pastor that that preaches it. If a Pastor is going to hell for preaching about tithe the that means a Pastor is going to hell for preaching against:

TV
Smoking
Drinking
Women wearing pants
Slits
Wedding rings
Going into bars
Swearing

The problem with this analogy is that the tithe doctrine is NOT the same. You have accused me of having my own tithe doctrine. The truth is that the tithe doctrine is God’s. He defined the scriptural tithe. His definition is WAY different from yours. The scriptural tithe doctrine is part of what we refer to as “the Mosaic law”. It really is God’s law for the Israelites. He delivered it to Moses. He also forbade them to change it . . .

Deut.4

[1] Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, for to do them, that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which the LORD God of your fathers giveth you.
[2] Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Adding to the word is exactly what you are doing. So it’s not really the same thing is it? If you believe it is the same, perhaps you shouldn’t be teaching all that other stuff either.

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

I can go on, the Bible never says specifically thou shalt not. So according to you it must mean it’s ok.

I believe in being led by the Holy Ghost. I also believe that the Bible was written by men who were inspired by the Holy Ghost.

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

I said before and I’ll say it again, tithe means 1/10, go from there.

Tithe does mean a tenth. However God specified what He wanted a tenth of. He didn’t leave it up to our imagination. Do you teach that everyone should give the pastor a tenth of their medical bills? Somehow I don’t see that happening.

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

People will use their Pastor like the Bible describes, both in the New and Old Testament. They’ll call them all hours of the night, they’ll go to them for counseling, they’ll ask for prayer, the weight of the church is on the Pastors shoulders. They expect a pastor to fulfill his duty as a minister and if he doesn’t, they’ll be chatter within the church. Yet, the moment he talks about tithe or giving he’s an extortioner, a liar, takes advantage of widows.

It seems to me that someone (perhaps you?) has failed to teach the Bible to their followers. Allow me to quote scripture. I know that drives you crazy but anyway, humor me.

Acts.20

[17] And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church.
Jas.5

[14] Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

Notice that these passages mention elders, which is plural. They don’t even mention pastor. Now I realize that it is possible, even preferable for a pastor to be an elder. It is however NOT possible for a pastor (singular) to be elders (plural). Plural eldership is the scriptural model. Singular pastorship is not. So you may need to step up your Bible studies. And teach accordingly.

God bless you my brother. Don’t rebel against the Word.

[Amanah]

Good grief

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Brother Nicodemus, I apologize for not responding to this earlier. Allow me . . .



I understand that you stand by what you post. Your position seems to be right in your own eyes, just because you’re right. I’m asking for scriptural support for your position. You seem to believe that you are above all that.

The apostle Paul wasn’t above all that. He said that the saints at Berea were more noble than the saints at Thessolonica because they studied the scriptures to see if what he was teaching them was actually true.

Acts 17
[11] These (the Berean saints) were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Brother, you are quite opposite Paul. You seem to ridicule me and others for asking for scripture references that support your position. Maybe a little self examination is in order?



I actually HAVE invited men of God to stay in my home. I’m glad to house them and feed them. Perhaps even give them an offering to send them on their way. So you are wrong about this. I have done this thing exactly and will most likely do it again. The problem with your doctrine is that this isn’t tithe. It doesn’t mention tithe. It doesn’t mention one tenth. These were Jews who were already giving tithes (if it applied to them). Their tithes were going to the Levitical tribe, the widows, the fatherless and the aliens, as the law commanded.



It looks. . . Generous.



We are told to give as unto the Lord. This phrase is often used when the offering is taken. What does it mean to give as unto the Lord? Matthew 25 gives specific examples. Here’s the short version. Please study the full version.

Matthew 25

[44] Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
[45] Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
[46] And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

I understand that this is not what you want to hear, but it is the instructions of Jesus.



Brother, it is NOT my doctrine. It is God’s doctrine. I’m just trying to live by it. In regards to what giving is? Read the second half of Matthew 25. It is pretty specific about what giving to Jesus is all about. Ironically it doesn’t mention tithing to the pastor. Jesus must have forgotten about the poor pastor! Sorry about that!



Yes. I have already mentioned Matthew 25. Otherwise I’m about giving as the Lord lays it on my heart. It appears to be something we can agree on.


See above.

To be continued . . .

Wonderful brother. It’s time for you to begin a home missions work.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Good grief

Would you care to elaborate?

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Continued . . .


The problem with this analogy is that the tithe doctrine is NOT the same. You have accused me of having my own tithe doctrine. The truth is that the tithe doctrine is God’s. He defined the scriptural tithe. His definition is WAY different from yours. The scriptural tithe doctrine is part of what we refer to as “the Mosaic law”. It really is God’s law for the Israelites. He delivered it to Moses. He also forbade them to change it . . .

Deut.4

[1] Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, for to do them, that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which the LORD God of your fathers giveth you.
[2] Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Adding to the word is exactly what you are doing. So it’s not really the same thing is it? If you believe it is the same, perhaps you shouldn’t be teaching all that other stuff either.



I believe in being led by the Holy Ghost. I also believe that the Bible was written by men who were inspired by the Holy Ghost.



Tithe does mean a tenth. However God specified what He wanted a tenth of. He didn’t leave it up to our imagination. Do you teach that everyone should give the pastor a tenth of their medical bills? Somehow I don’t see that happening.




It seems to me that someone (perhaps you?) has failed to teach the Bible to their followers. Allow me to quote scripture. I know that drives you crazy but anyway, humor me.

Acts.20

[17] And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church.
Jas.5

[14] Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

Notice that these passages mention elders, which is plural. They don’t even mention pastor. Now I realize that it is possible, even preferable for a pastor to be an elder. It is however NOT possible for a pastor (singular) to be elders (plural). Plural eldership is the scriptural model. Singular pastorship is not. So you may need to step up your Bible studies. And teach accordingly.

God bless you my brother. Don’t rebel against the Word.

Brother when the sick call for the elders in your church, are people healed?

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by 1 God

Tithesmeister, If Jerusalem was the lake of fire as Nicodemus says, then the Jews were cast into it from around the world. I thought they were drug out of it and sent packing?

Like I said, there is no verse that says the lake of fire is Jerusalem. I just know what and where the judgement was to. The Lord called the Pharisees sons of the devil, he said there will not be one stone left upon another. The preaching of John was, Repent for the kingdom of God is at hand. Daniel was to Told to seal up the vision, John in revelation was told to send the letters out because the time will shortly come to pass. I say the lake of fire was Jerusalem. Because the lake of fire is not mentioned anywhere else other than revelation in regards to Jerusalems destruction.