Billy Graham

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Hebrews 6
1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3 And this will we do, if God permit.

What do you believe that this means?

It certainly doesn't mean that we shouldn't study and bear out the spiritual deep and abiding realities of repentance, faith, water baptism, the ordination of elders, the resurrection, and eternal judgment.

What it means is, once these foundations are set... we are to go on unto perfection (sanctification).

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Aquila

What do you believe that this means?

It certainly doesn't mean that we shouldn't study and bear out the spiritual deep and abiding realities of repentance, faith, water baptism, the ordination of elders, the resurrection, and eternal judgment.

What it means is, once these foundations are set... we are to go on unto perfection (sanctification).

It means until you get the foundation right, you can't go any further.

[Aquila]

In short, Acts 2:38 can be dissected is as follows:

Acts 2:38 (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent (unto justification by faith, Romans 5:1; Galatians 3:24; Ephesians 2:8), and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins (unto identification with Christ, having the conscience cleansed, John 3:5; I Peter 3:21, and therefore forgiveness experienced), and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost (unto regeneration, John 3:5; Romans 8:28–30; 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:13; Ephesians 4:30; 2 Corinthians 5:17; Galatians 4:5; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:23) .

My point is... we do well to allow God to be the judge of those who may have experienced justification before God as a result of their repentance and faith, and yet had yet to move forward into the realities of identification and regeneration.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Amanah

It means until you get the foundation right, you can't go any further.

No. It doesn't. lol

Paul's point is an admonition that once these realities are understood, we are to move forward into spiritual maturity and sanctification.

And my point here is... no one appears to be seeking to understand these interrelated spiritual realities. They rush through Acts 2:38 (condemn everyone who hasn't experienced it as we have instantly) and yet they don't even understand how conversion, justification, regeneration, and sanctification are related, nor how they even are received and experienced through Acts 2:38. And as a result, they do not even consider the state of those who have experienced a portion of Acts 2:38.

[Amanah]

This is way different

Originally Posted by Amanah

Sinner's prayer:

"Dear God, I know I’m a sinner, and I ask for your forgiveness. I believe Jesus Christ is Your Son. I believe that He died for my sin and that you raised Him to life. I want to trust Him as my Savior and follow Him as Lord, from this day forward. Guide my life and help me to do your will. I pray this in the name of Jesus. Amen."

https://peacewithgod.net/

From this

Originally Posted by Aquila

Acts 2:38 (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent (unto justification by faith, Romans 5:1; Galatians 3:24; Ephesians 2:8), and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins (unto identification with Christ, having the conscience cleansed, John 3:5; I Peter 3:21, and therefore forgiveness experienced), and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost (unto regeneration, John 3:5; Romans 8:28–30; 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:13; Ephesians 4:30; 2 Corinthians 5:17; Galatians 4:5; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:23) .

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Aquila

No. It doesn't. lol

Paul's point is an admonition that once these realities are understood, we are to move forward into spiritual maturity and sanctification.

And my point here is... no one appears to be seeking to understand these interrelated spiritual realities. They rush through Acts 2:38 (condemn everyone who haven't experienced it as we have instantly) and yet they don't even understand how conversion, justification, regeneration, and sanctification are related, nor how they even are received and experienced through Acts 2:38.

Acts 26:24

. . . thou art beside thyself; much learning doth make thee mad.

[houston]

This is funny. I lean reformed. There are many reformed that are not cessationist. Why? Because that is not a logical conclusion. Many reformers were not cessationist. Sola scriptural is not false doctrine. Even while operating in spiritual gifts- the message has to line up with scripture.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Acts 26:24

. . . thou art beside thyself; much learning doth make thee mad.

Madness has always been the mark of genius. LOL

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by houston

This is funny. I lean reformed. There are many reformed that are not cessationist. Why? Because that is not a logical conclusion. Many reformers were not cessationist. Sola scriptural is not false doctrine. Even while operating in spiritual gifts- the message has to line up with scripture.

That's why I tried to use the term "historically".

In recent years some leading Reformed teachers have opened the door to the spiritual gifts. Good Reformed men like John Piper, Wayne Grudem, Mark Driscoll, and others haven even testified to their believing that this gifts are "real"... although they almost universally testify that they have not personally experienced them, while downplaying their importance. A part of this is due to the overwhelming prevalence of the Charismatic renewal movement. Catholics, Lutherans, Baptists, Reformed, Episcopals, Presbyterians, etc. have all historically denied the validity of such gifts... with the Reformed screaming "SOLA SCRIPTURA!" the entire time. But within the past 70 years we've seen how members of all of these denominations have experienced the baptism of the Holy Spirit and have experienced the gifts. And this Charismatic renewal movement is so prevalent in American Christianity that it is evident that should they take a hard line against the baptism of the Holy Spirit and the gifts, they will find themselves in the minority rather quickly. The Holy Spirit (the Spirit of Christ) has brought them to their knees and caused them to open the door to His reality. Yet, in most Reformed circles who "claim" to believe in it... just try to practice it. You'll be shut down in a New York minute.

The notion that a divine utterance beyond the Word's of Scripture can be given, received, or experienced is not Sola Scriptura as it was historically understood. That's the leading reason why they historically opposed speaking in tongues since the beginning of the Pentecostal revivals in the early 20th Century.

When I see a Reformed teacher, preacher, or believer who states that they believe in the gifts, it's like seeing a person in a classically Cessationist tradition... with egg on their face, admitting that the Pentecostals were right... while they continue cling to their traditional Reformed theology out of pure stubbornness. lol

And even worse yet... I see Apostolics drifting into their classical Cessationist theology!

I have a theory as to why though.

We've neglected a systematic theological perspective of the doctrines of grace... from a purely Apostolic perspective, centered on Acts 2:38. Which is what I have presented above and have been working on for 11 years.

[Amanah]

Billy Graham studied the bible for 70+ years, he had his chance and missed the boat, and deceived millions into thinking they were saved.