In some cases, it mentions an angel also being the Lord God. Just another one of many questions I plan on asking God when I see Him......why did He come so often as a man or angel in the OT but rarely since?
Where does the bible say an angel was the Lord God?
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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People who are always looking for fault,can find it easily all they have to do,is look into their mirror.
There they can find plenty of fault.
He became that way by eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Ok, I was thinking it referred to that, but was just making sure.
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Does this not show then that angels are like God somehow then?
Like God somehow? Sure....like all animals are 'somehow' like humans because they eat, sleep, and procreate. But I wouldn't liken myself to a hamster just because we might have some things in common, see?
However, God is a Spirit that has qualities unlike the spirits of the angels. They are limited in all things where God is not. But perhaps, if the angels were already aware of good and evil (and I'm sure they were), that's how man became like them, because God and the angels knew, but man didn't until he are of that tree.
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Who said God did something with hands? Do you know what an anthropomorphism is?
No. And that's not the only time hands are needed and sometimes even seen in the Bible.
Should I look that word up in the dictionary? LOL!
Anyway, a verse about God's hands:
Isa 45:9
Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?
He created us with dust as a potter makes something of clay.
PapaDon:
Note the following verses that also also say that I can ask him of things to come and concerning the works of His hands command him. (This is in response to the post you made.)
Isaiah 45:11
Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.
45:12
I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.
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Like God somehow? Sure....like all animals are 'somehow' like humans because they eat, sleep, and procreate. But I wouldn't liken myself to a hamster just because we might have some things in common, see?
It was NEVER said in scriptures, by God, of the angels "Look, pigs are like us now, knowing good and evil"...at this point I see I am just not getting through to you. Angels and man have an image or likeness (moral, emotional etc etc) like God's
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However, God is a Spirit that has qualities unlike the spirits of the angels. They are limited in all things where God is not. But perhaps, if the angels were already aware of good and evil (and I'm sure they were), that's how man became like them, because God and the angels knew, but man didn't until he are of that tree.
You completely missed the point I think. If you were to go back again over the article, our discussion on what image is, our discussion on the angels having will...all the verses that show angels have will and emotion and are moral agents, then you might get my point as to why God could be talking about angels when He said "our image" and why the next "us" is so significant
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No. And that's not the only time hands are needed and sometimes even seen in the Bible.
Again, where where where does it say God made Adam with a pair of hands? This is the second or third time I have asked. An anthropomorphism is a description of God made like us. In other words when the bible speaks of God's wings it does not really mean to say God is a bird. When it speaks of the nostrils of God it does not really mean a giant nose stuck out of the sky and blew on the waters.
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Anyway, a verse about God's hands:
Isa 45:9
Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?
Do you not see this is an analogy of a potter to clay? It does not really mean we are just lumps of clay.
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He created us with dust as a potter makes something of clay.
He MADE us from the dust of the earth, but do you really think God got down on his knees, some water and mixed it with the dirt and then spent a few hours forming man into a human shape? Where does it say God did that with a pair of hands?
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Isaiah 45:11
Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.
So you really believe God is waving His hands around at blinding light doing all this stuff He is doing? I think He does it by His Spirit and His word. He speaks things into happening
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45:12
I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.
anthropomorphism
(an-thruh-puh-mawr-fiz-uhm) The attributing of human characteristics and purposes to inanimate objects, animals, plants, or other natural phenomena, or to God. To describe a rushing river as “angry” is to anthropomorphize it.
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
He MADE us from the dust of the earth, but do you really think God got down on his knees, some water and mixed it with the dirt and then spent a few hours forming man into a human shape? Where does it say God did that with a pair of hands?
What did He use, since He didn't speak us into existence? Was it mind-control over the dust? LOL!
Seriously though, does it have to say with hands or we don't believe it? I mean, when Jesus is mentioned walking places, the scripture doesn't mention Him having shoes on, but I think it's safe to assume that He did.
We have God speaking things into existence, and we have Him creating man. I suppose we can assume it was mind-control He made us with, but I prefer to believe that He indeed got down on His hands and knees into the dirt He'd created days earlier and took control with His hands to create man, then bending over to breathe life into him. I don't need scripture to believe that. And you don't need any to believe whatever it is you believe. It's just an opinion, that's all.
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So you really believe God is waving His hands around at blinding light doing all this stuff He is doing? I think He does it by His Spirit and His word. He speaks things into happening
Sometimes He speaks, sometimes He 'does' something. God has no limitations.
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anthropomorphism
(an-thruh-puh-mawr-fiz-uhm) The attributing of human characteristics and purposes to inanimate objects, animals, plants, or other natural phenomena, or to God. To describe a rushing river as “angry” is to anthropomorphize it.
Thank you. That makes sense now. But I'm not sure I agree with adding God to the definition, as if He has commonality with the objects, plants, animals, and other natural phenomena....just sounds like a scientific definition to define God's actions and characteristics, know what I mean?
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
If you would open your bible please and grab one then we can examine it. Until you do that how am I supposed to answer your questions?
Genesis 22:11
And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
22:12
And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.
The angel of the Lord says to Abraham 'thou hast not withheld...thine only son from me'??
22:13
And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.
22:14
And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.
22:15
And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
22:16
And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
22:17
That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
The angel blessed him with a promise?? Yes, I see that the angel says 'saith the LORD', but didn't in the verses above.
'Angel' is also defined in the Strong's as 'the theophanic angel'.
There have also been discussions on the previous forums about this topic, which is where some of my info comes from, but looking up specific verses that speak about an angel being the Lord is too time consuming, but perhaps others here can help, since many of them have posted on that topic in the past.
I know there is a passage where an angel is seen, but when the man tells others the story, he says that the Lord told him, not an angel of the Lord...or something to that effect anyway.
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
What did He use, since He didn't speak us into existence? Was it mind-control over the dust? LOL!
Woah wait...where does the bible say God did NOT speak us into existence?
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Seriously though, does it have to say with hands or we don't believe it?
Huh? Yes if I am to believe God made man with a pair of hands I expect the bible to actually say it...are you saying I should believe God used a pair of hands to make Adam because it doesn't say HE didn't?!?! With that kind of reasoning one might argue God used his feet and prehensile tail. Yes, Im sorry but I have to have some reason to accept that your assertion is true that God used a pair of hands to form Adam....the bible just does not say that is the case. I mean are you seriously asking me that? "Does the bible have to say that God has a mohawk or we don't believe it?"
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I mean, when Jesus is mentioned walking places, the scripture doesn't mention Him having shoes on, but I think it's safe to assume that He did.
It does say he wore sandles. Jesus also was a man. We are talking about God before the first man Adam was even made and you are assuming God had a pair of hands and he got down in the dirt and literally formed man with hands and dirt rather than using his creative supernatural power and just speaking it to happen, like when he said "Let the earth bring forth...."...even if I believed God had a pair of hands back then I would still believe God used the power of His mind/Spirit/Word to cause man to be formed from the ground rather than literally using hands and mud and making man like a potter in literal terms.
Are you a literalist?
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We have God speaking things into existence, and we have Him creating man.
No. We have God creating and making man. We have God forming man from the ground and we have God breaking life into man. Man was NOT a living being just upon being formed from the ground. Man was not a living being until God breathed life into that form. That still does not tell me God used a pair of hands to form man from the ground. See....we are not dirt. We are skin and bones and many other things. We are are complex organism. God didn't just push dirt together and used some water to stick. God transformed that into what we are. I defy anyone to use a pair of hands and take dirt or mud or clay and form an actual human body. There was a LOT more going on then just forming a shape. That is what I think is missing here. Image or likeness is not about shape.
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I suppose we can assume it was mind-control He made us with, but I prefer to believe that He indeed got down on His hands and knees into the dirt He'd created days earlier and took control with His hands to create man, then bending over to breathe life into him. I don't need scripture to believe that. And you don't need any to believe whatever it is you believe. It's just an opinion, that's all.
having an opinion and having a belief are not the same things. Truth, Beliefs, they are based on what the word says, not on what it does not say not to believe.
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Thank you. That makes sense now. But I'm not sure I agree with adding God to the definition, as if He has commonality with the objects, plants, animals, and other natural phenomena....just sounds like a scientific definition to define God's actions and characteristics, know what I mean?
No I don't
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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