Question about Acts 2:38: What about the martyrs?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Sorry, but what modern Rabbinical Judaism does only dates back to the Middle Ages, and even that is highly debatable. To the Apostles (even to the pharisees) of the first century Rabbinical Judaism would be as unrecognizable as Mormonism.

[TK Burk]

THE ORIGINS OF BAPTISM

The Old Testament contains several references to baptism. There it was known as a“MIKVAH.” A mikvah is a pool or a gathering of water.

Leviticus 11:36
(36) Nevertheless a fountain or pit, wherein there is plenty of water, shall be clean: but that which toucheth their carcase shall be unclean.

Some examples of immersions in the Old Testament:

1. Leviticus 13: 1-32 .......Cleansing of leprosy.
2. Numbers 19:18-19 .......Exposure to a dead body.
3. Leviticus 15:5-14 .......Exposure to a person with an unclean issue.
4. Leviticus 15:19-31 .......Cleansing from state of Niddah (“Set apart”) woman’s monthly cycle.
5. Leviticus 12:2-4 .......Cleansing of a mother after childbirth.
6. Numbers 19:20 .......Ceremonially clean for worship in the Temple.
7. Exodus 29:4, 40:12 .......Installation/Consecration of the Priests.
8. Numbers 8:15 .......Levites to the service of God.
9. Leviticus 16:24-26 .......Priests on Yom Kippur/Day of Atonement had to before they would enter the Holy of Holies.
10. Leviticus 16:26 .......Priest with the scapegoat.
11. Leviticus 16:28 .......Priest with the ox sin offering.
12. Numbers 15:15 .......Immersion of a Proselyte/Jewish Convert.
13. Leviticus 19:8 .......Priests who burned the red heifer for its ashes.

[TK Burk]

The mikvah that is akin to New Covenant Baptism is the proselyte immersion.

Mikveh the Forerunner of Baptism

Along with the purposes already mentioned in the Torah, another use of symbolic purification by water became part of early Jewish tradition. This was immersion or baptism for Gentile converts to Judaism. Though the only Biblical requirement for entrance into the covenant was circumcision, baptism became an added requisite. No one knows exactly when or by whom the requirements were changed to include baptism, but it was before the time of Jesus. We know this, because debates on the subject of proselyte baptism are recorded between rabbinic schools of Shammai and Hillel, both contemporaries of Jesus. Whereas the school of Shammai stressed circumcision as the point of transition, the Hillelites considered baptism most important because it portrayed spiritual cleansing and the beginning of a new life. Ultimately the Hillelite view prevailed, as is reflected in the Talmudic writings. Maimonides, that greatly revered 12th century Jewish scholar, summed up all Talmudic tradition concerning converts to Judaism as follows.

"By three things did Israel enter into the Covenant: by circumcision, and baptism and sacrifice. Circumcision was in Egypt, as it is written: 'No uncircumcised person shall eat thereof' (Exodus 12:48). Baptism was in the wilderness, just before giving of the Law, as it is written: 'Sanctify them today and tomorrow, and let them wash their clothes' (Exodus 19:10). And sacrifice, as it is said: 'And he sent young men of the children of Israel which offered burnt offerings' (Exodus 24:5)…When a gentile is willing to enter the covenant…He must be circumcised and be baptized and bring a sacrifice…And at this time when there is no sacrifice, they must be circumcised and be baptized; and when the Temple shall be built, they are to bring a sacrifice…The gentile that is made a proselyte and the slave that is made free, behold he is like a child new born."

[TK Burk]

THE TRUE MIKVAH

Jesus is the “hope of Israel.”

Jeremiah 17:13
(13) O LORD, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed, and they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken theLORD, the fountain of living waters.

The word HOPE in the Hebrew is the word MIKVAH. It literally says that Jesus will be the “BAPTISM” of Israel!

The DAY of the Messiah was to be a time of cleansing from sins and disobedience.

Zechariah 13:1
(1) In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.

Baptism, Jewish Encyclopedia.com, by Kaufmann Kohler and Samuel Krauss

To receive the spirit of God, or to be permitted to stand in the presence of God (His Shekinah), man must undergo Baptism (Tan., Meẓora’, 6, ed. Buber, p.46), wherefore in the Messianic time God will Himself pour water of purification upon Israel in accordance with Ezek. xxxvi. 25 (Tan., Meẓora’, 9-17, 18, ed. Buber, pp. 43, 53).

Ezekiel 36:25-27
(25) Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
(26) A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh.
(27) And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

This is exactly what the scriptures said of Jesus’ purpose.

Matthew 1:21
(21) And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

John 7:38
(38) He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

John 19:34
(34) But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

THE ORIGINS OF BAPTISM

The Old Testament contains several references to baptism. There it was known as a“MIKVAH.” A mikvah is a pool or a gathering of water.

Leviticus 11:36
(36) Nevertheless a fountain or pit, wherein there is plenty of water, shall be clean: but that which toucheth their carcase shall be unclean.

Some examples of immersions in the Old Testament:

1. Leviticus 13: 1-32 .......Cleansing of leprosy.
2. Numbers 19:18-19 .......Exposure to a dead body.
3. Leviticus 15:5-14 .......Exposure to a person with an unclean issue.
4. Leviticus 15:19-31 .......Cleansing from state of Niddah (“Set apart”) woman’s monthly cycle.
5. Leviticus 12:2-4 .......Cleansing of a mother after childbirth.
6. Numbers 19:20 .......Ceremonially clean for worship in the Temple.
7. Exodus 29:4, 40:12 .......Installation/Consecration of the Priests.
8. Numbers 8:15 .......Levites to the service of God.
9. Leviticus 16:24-26 .......Priests on Yom Kippur/Day of Atonement had to before they would enter the Holy of Holies.
10. Leviticus 16:26 .......Priest with the scapegoat.
11. Leviticus 16:28 .......Priest with the ox sin offering.
12. Numbers 15:15 .......Immersion of a Proselyte/Jewish Convert.
13. Leviticus 19:8 .......Priests who burned the red heifer for its ashes.

I believe the examples you cited were more commonly called "washings".

The "washings" more comparable with today's baptism are:
the high priest;
the levites;
and the congregation.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

THE ORIGINS OF BAPTISM

The Old Testament contains several references to baptism. There it was known as a“MIKVAH.” A mikvah is a pool or a gathering of water.

Leviticus 11:36
(36) Nevertheless a fountain or pit, wherein there is plenty of water, shall be clean: but that which toucheth their carcase shall be unclean.

Some examples of immersions in the Old Testament:

1. Leviticus 13: 1-32 .......Cleansing of leprosy.
2. Numbers 19:18-19 .......Exposure to a dead body.
3. Leviticus 15:5-14 .......Exposure to a person with an unclean issue.
4. Leviticus 15:19-31 .......Cleansing from state of Niddah (“Set apart”) woman’s monthly cycle.
5. Leviticus 12:2-4 .......Cleansing of a mother after childbirth.
6. Numbers 19:20 .......Ceremonially clean for worship in the Temple.
7. Exodus 29:4, 40:12 .......Installation/Consecration of the Priests.
8. Numbers 8:15 .......Levites to the service of God.
9. Leviticus 16:24-26 .......Priests on Yom Kippur/Day of Atonement had to before they would enter the Holy of Holies.
10. Leviticus 16:26 .......Priest with the scapegoat.
11. Leviticus 16:28 .......Priest with the ox sin offering.
12. Numbers 15:15 .......Immersion of a Proselyte/Jewish Convert.
13. Leviticus 19:8 .......Priests who burned the red heifer for its ashes.

Good stuff, TK.

Here's the thing: When 3,000 souls were added to the church, having gladly received the word and were baptized, where was it done?

In the temple pools dedicated to mikveh. Therefore, mikveh predates Rabbinical Judaism by hundreds of years. Just because the practice in some ways changed with the loss of the temple and priesthood, it doesn't mean that the basic idea of mikveh changed: an immersion which causes a supernatural cleansing in the sight of God, to free a soul from sin and its consequences, in order to be considered ritually pure before God so as to be able to partake in the promises of the covenant and in the fellowship of the people of God.

[Esaias]

Yes, but the point being argued is whether or not Christian baptism was a self administered mikva, or something else (a mikva requiring another person who actually baptises the candidate).

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

I believe the examples you cited were more commonly called "washings".

The "washings" more comparable with today's baptism are:
the high priest;
the levites;
and the congregation.

But none of those you cited is said to cause its recipient to be like a new born child. The mikvah immersion for a proselyte is said to cause such a new birth.

Keep in mind what Jesus told Nicodemus in John 3, and what He said in the Great Commission of Matthew 28:18-20. In the first Jesus nullified Nicodemus' natural birth and called for a rebirth of water and spirit. In the second Jesus did the same when He sent His disciples to make converts of all "non-Jewish, heathen, gentile people" (ethnos). Hence, in both places baptism was instrumental in changing the status of those outside God's kingdom into those inside His kingdom, i.e. the "old man" was "buried" and the "new man" was "born" anew.

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Yes, but the point being argued is whether or not Christian baptism was a self administered mikva, or something else (a mikva requiring another person who actually baptises the candidate).

Please consider this:

Originally Posted by TK Burk

The mikvah that is akin to New Covenant Baptism is the proselyte immersion.

Mikveh the Forerunner of Baptism

Along with the purposes already mentioned in the Torah, another use of symbolic purification by water became part of early Jewish tradition. This was immersion or baptism for Gentile converts to Judaism. Though the only Biblical requirement for entrance into the covenant was circumcision, baptism became an added requisite. No one knows exactly when or by whom the requirements were changed to include baptism, but it was before the time of Jesus. We know this, because debates on the subject of proselyte baptism are recorded between rabbinic schools of Shammai and Hillel, both contemporaries of Jesus. Whereas the school of Shammai stressed circumcision as the point of transition, the Hillelites considered baptism most important because it portrayed spiritual cleansing and the beginning of a new life. Ultimately the Hillelite view prevailed, as is reflected in the Talmudic writings. Maimonides, that greatly revered 12th century Jewish scholar, summed up all Talmudic tradition concerning converts to Judaism as follows.

"By three things did Israel enter into the Covenant: by circumcision, and baptism and sacrifice. Circumcision was in Egypt, as it is written: 'No uncircumcised person shall eat thereof' (Exodus 12:48). Baptism was in the wilderness, just before giving of the Law, as it is written: 'Sanctify them today and tomorrow, and let them wash their clothes' (Exodus 19:10). And sacrifice, as it is said: 'And he sent young men of the children of Israel which offered burnt offerings' (Exodus 24:5)…When a gentile is willing to enter the covenant…He must be circumcised and be baptized and bring a sacrifice…And at this time when there is no sacrifice, they must be circumcised and be baptized; and when the Temple shall be built, they are to bring a sacrifice…The gentile that is made a proselyte and the slave that is made free, behold he is like a child new born."

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

But none of those you cited is said to cause its recipient to be like a new born child. The mikvah immersion for a proselyte is said to cause such a new birth.
Keep in mind what Jesus told Nicodemus in John 3, and what He said in the Great Commission of Matthew 28:18-20. In the first Jesus nullified Nicodemus' natural birth and called for a rebirth of water and spirit. In the second Jesus did the same when He sent His disciples to make converts of all "non-Jewish, heathen, gentile people" (ethnos). Hence, in both places baptism was instrumental in changing the status of those outside God's kingdom into those inside His kingdom, i.e. the "old man" was "buried" and the "new man" was "born" anew.

The "mikvah" could never give a new birth,
for then would a NEW BIRTH in the New Testament not be necessary. Our baptism is
greater than the washing in the OT: based on greater promises. The washings of the
congregation, Levites, and High Priest correspond to the New Birth today.

"Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter in...".