This Is Why We Get a Bad Rap!!

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

I suppose. I mean, what's the purpose? Cuss if you want to, but to make it public on her blog knowing that the church/churches you've pastor have access to?

I don't care what's in your heart sometimes you just do what's right.

I can't totally agree with you here because the Word says, "...for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh."

If her heart is not right, how can she stop herself?

I think you and I can agree that if something has a hold of your heart - it's a hard to deal, in some circumstances, to wrestle yourself out of it. When it's got you, it's got you. It takes great determination to walk away from things that affect and have your heart and mind. I think you and I can agree on that one. At least, I think we can.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I can't totally agree with you here because the Word says, "...for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh."

If her heart is not right, how can she stop herself?

I think you and I can agree that if something has a hold of your heart - it's a hard to deal, in some circumstances, to wrestle yourself out of it. When it's got you, it's got you. It takes great determination to walk away from things that affect and have your heart and mind. I think you and I can agree on that one. At least, I think we can.

Yes, we can agree on that.

However, I will put stipulations on it. Writing a blog where you have complete control of the content, can go back and edit it, etc. I believe it was thought out and had a purpose.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by pelathais

What was the idea behind the blog? What was the writer's motivation for resorting to a "shock treatment?"

The discussion seems to revolve around how "unspiritual" this blog entry was. What if it was actually more calculated?

I think I should have worded it this way - What Sherri drew from the blog is what I am interested in discussing.

The idea that someone leaving the UPC and representing their character and life before God is disconcerting and leaves some concern, on Sherri's part, that it taints, by association, the path they have chosen as a broadbrush effect.

As we have experienced a great deal of broadbrushing, I can see Sherri's concern and that is what I was interested in discussing.

Because she is right, it does leave and has left an impression on many of us having observed the people leaving, for the most part.

So, now we see that we have broadbrushing going both ways.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Yes, we can agree on that.

However, I will put stipulations on it. Writing a blog where you have complete control of the content, can go back and edit it, etc. I believe it was thought out and had a purpose.

Right, which means something has a hold of her heart and she couldn't stop herself, because she didn't want to. It's her heart and mind that is in jeopardy. I don't see how she can change that, unless she actually wants to. And if her bitterness, for what ever reason, is that deep - it's going to be a hard deal for her.

So, again, I believe, without reading it myself, it's got her and she can't stop herself. Hopefully, at some point she will turn around.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

I think, also, that when some of us refer to 'conservative' we don't mean what others mean when they say 'conservative'. Many of you consider yourselves conservative, but have tvs, wear jewelry, etc. In the crowd I hang with those things right there put you WAY out in the liberal camp.

Speaking for myself only, when I say conservative, I'm talking about the 'absolutely no tv of any sort, no movies (even Veggie Tales), no wedding rings, no above-the-elbow sleeves, no music but Christian (and only certain types of Christian) no sports (played, watched, or listened to), no knee-length shorts for boys, skirts must be at least 3 inches below the knee, no Six Flags, no clear nail polish, absolutely no foundation or concealer'...... you get the drift.

There is a long list of rules, and they all are considered hell-bound offenses. THAT type of mindset DOES tend to produce people that go nuts when they "backslide". I've seen it so many times it's ridiculous.

My church is moving towards more balance, and I am SO grateful!!

I think that description, for the most part, is years ago - at least in all the places I have been and people that I know - years ago.....

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

The point I'm trying to get to is that since little things are given the same "sin value" (for lack of a better term), then when you do a little thing, you think that you might as well do it all--since you're already going to have to repent on Sunday AM. That's the mindset I'm talking about. There's no independent interpretation of what is right and wrong, based on a personal set of morals. Everything is interpreted through the lens of "will I get caught?" rather than "does this please God?"

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

This is EXACTLY right. You will go to hell for wearing short sleeves (no joke) so you might as well have fun going down. If you're going to hell anyway, why stop with short sleeves. This really is a mindset some have. I've SEEN it.

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Missed this before.

I have seen this EXACT behavior and much better explains what I was trying to say earlier.

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

I think, also, that when some of us refer to 'conservative' we don't mean what others mean when they say 'conservative'. Many of you consider yourselves conservative, but have tvs, wear jewelry, etc. In the crowd I hang with those things right there put you WAY out in the liberal camp.

Speaking for myself only, when I say conservative, I'm talking about the 'absolutely no tv of any sort, no movies (even Veggie Tales), no wedding rings, no above-the-elbow sleeves, no music but Christian (and only certain types of Christian) no sports (played, watched, or listened to), no knee-length shorts for boys, skirts must be at least 3 inches below the knee, no Six Flags, no clear nail polish, absolutely no foundation or concealer'...... you get the drift.

There is a long list of rules, and they all are considered hell-bound offenses. THAT type of mindset DOES tend to produce people that go nuts when they "backslide". I've seen it so many times it's ridiculous.

My church is moving towards more balance, and I am SO grateful!!

Please don't beat me up for this...

But there are two things I have noticed (I can only speak of my personal experience) that occur in unhealthy churches (that exist in all denominations).

1. No one would ever deny the importance of being filled with God's Spirit. It is absolutely vital to the Christian experience and new birth. The absolute necessity is preached over and over with great fervor. And yet, it seems that (again in unhealthy churches of all denominations!) that once a person is saved (indwelt by the Holy Ghost), they are constantly bombarded with the subliminal message that as necessary as the HG is, He is not truly strong enough to lead us and keep us. And, if by some chance that He is, we are not smart enough to follow His lead, or hear His voice.

That, I believe, is one reason why principles are skipped overly entirely and one's spiritual walk becomes instead a list of rules.

2. The second problem that I feel that occurs (in unhealthy churches of all denominations!) is that often God will speak to an individual (often in leadership) about an area in their own life, and direct them to either do (or not do) a certain behavior. Often this individual will assume that because the Lord asked it of them, He must in fact mean it to apply to believers everywhere.

When these things happen (in unhealthy churches of all denominations!) you often have individuals who are never taught to rely on their relationship with God, but instead are simply taught to follow the rules. Because they learn neither principles, or to follow the leading of the Spirit, they don't know how to handle situations where the rules are not explicitly spelled out.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Michlow

Please don't beat me up for this...

But there are two things I have noticed (I can only speak of my personal experience) that occur in unhealthy churches (that exist in all denominations).

1. No one would ever deny the importance of being filled with God's Spirit. It is absolutely vital to the Christian experience and new birth. The absolute necessity is preached over and over with great fervor. And yet, it seems that (again in unhealthy churches of all denominations!) that once a person is saved (indwelt by the Holy Ghost), they are constantly bombarded with the subliminal message that as necessary as the HG is, He is not truly strong enough to lead us and keep us. And, if by some chance that He is, we are not smart enough to follow His lead, or hear His voice.

That, I believe, is one reason why principles are skipped overly entirely and one's spiritual walk becomes instead a list of rules.

2. The second problem that I feel that occurs (in unhealthy churches of all denominations!) is that often God will speak to an individual (often in leadership) about an area in their own life, and direct them to either do (or not do) a certain behavior. Often this individual will assume that because the Lord asked it of them, He must in fact mean it to apply to believers everywhere.

When these things happen (in unhealthy churches of all denominations!) you often have individuals who are never taught to rely on their relationship with God, but instead are simply taught to follow the rules. Because they learn neither principles, or to follow the leading of the Spirit, they don't know how to handle situations where the rules are not explicitly spelled out.

Good post! I agree and very clever/wise of you to include, "in unhealthy churches of all denominations"!

[rgcraig]

I think I've mentioned this before, but the broadbrushing going both ways reminded me of it again.

I visited a UPC church and sat by a friend I had attended JCM with. I worshiped, sang all the songs and enjoyed being there. After the worship part of the service, she wispered, "how do you know all those songs?"

She assumed because I'd cut my hair that I didn't worship and for sure wouldn't know the songs.

Sad.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Right, which means something has a hold of her heart and she couldn't stop herself, because she didn't want to. It's her heart and mind that is in jeopardy. I don't see how she can change that, unless she actually wants to. And if her bitterness, for what ever reason, is that deep - it's going to be a hard deal for her.

So, again, I believe, without reading it myself, it's got her and she can't stop herself. Hopefully, at some point she will turn around.

That is my point. She didn't want to. Not disagreeing that something got hold of her heart - that's obvious. I think you are stressing the "she couldn't stop herself" and I'm stressing "she didn't want to".

[KWSS1976]

It was funny I was talking to my dad the other day about all the issues the UPC goes through with all the hair and dress stuff and I told him to be glad he was baptist I really think they are connected with god more than the UPC is..