Genesis - Who is our image?

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I don't understand what being omnipresent has to do with having a body.

It's not until Jesus is born that the bible speaks of having a body

Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

Col 2:9 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,

Jesus said God is Spirit. That is what God is outside of the incarnation and we are told that ALL of heaven is His throne.

A body is a physical instrument necessary to interact with other things. Our souls and spirits are united with a human body in order to interact with the material world. We are like God in the fact that God is a moral being with will and emotions. That is how we are like God. God is the creator and we have a creative ability in our imagination and seeking ways to make it happen. God and angels and man all have a similar image. Having a body and having an image are not the same thing.

I like how you put that. It makes a clearer meaning to me, thanks.

He saw an angel. Jesus was never "seen" prior to the incarnation. The name Jesus was ONLY given AFTER the Son was born. Jesus is not just God. Jesus is God incarnate. God and flesh. Prior to the incarnation Jesus was/is simply just Yahweh.

Again, this is well put. I just don't agree that an angel was seen, but I do see that it's possible. And since I just got a phone call that I have to pick my son up from camp and take him to ER, I'll come back to this later.

What do you mean why aren't they? I was the one that first said they WERE made in the image of God and you disagreed with me!


We aren't discussing whether God is powerful enough to make Himself a body.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

I like how you put that. It makes a clearer meaning to me, thanks.

Thanks

Again, this is well put. I just don't agree that an angel was seen, but I do see that it's possible. And since I just got a phone call that I have to pick my son up from camp and take him to ER, I'll come back to this later.

Oh dear....I'll be praying. I hope it is not serious.

As for what old Nebu saw, part of our problem is in the language of the KJV

Here is the ESV
Dan 3:25 He answered and said, "But I see four men unbound, walking in the midst of the fire, and they are not hurt; and the appearance of the fourth is like a son of the gods."
First of all, no where else does the term "son of God" appear in the OT, so we have to wonder why a pagan king who threw these hebrews into the fire for not bowing to an idol, would know about the Son of God when even the Hebrews did not.

Second a later verse reads
Dan 3:28 Then Nebuchadnezzar spoke, and said, Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, who hath sent his angel, and delivered his servants that trusted in him, and have changed the king's word, and yielded their bodies, that they might not serve nor worship any god, except their own God.

[HeavenlyOne]

Ok, I just got home and my son is in the shower, so I'll be here until he's done and I can take him back to camp.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

What do you mean why aren't they? I was the one that first said they WERE made in the image of God and you disagreed with me!

And I still disagree with you. Being the busy person I am, I have tried to read every post you have made on this subject, and perhaps I missed the one where you posted scripture that states (not in exact words, but making a statement all the time) that angels are made or created in the image of God, but I haven't found one myself.

We aren't discussing whether God is powerful enough to make Himself a body.

That's not the point, but with God, all things are possible, and in this instance, I believe it's probable.

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Thanks


Oh dear....I'll be praying. I hope it is not serious.

He was playing football and his chin hit another guy's forehead. My son has 8 stitches, but thankfully, it's underneath where it's not easily seen. Thanks for the concern and prayers.

As for what old Nebu saw, part of our problem is in the language of the KJV

Here is the ESV
Dan 3:25 He answered and said, "But I see four men unbound, walking in the midst of the fire, and they are not hurt; and the appearance of the fourth is like a son of the gods."
First of all, no where else does the term "son of God" appear in the OT, so we have to wonder why a pagan king who threw these hebrews into the fire for not bowing to an idol, would know about the Son of God when even the Hebrews did not.

I heard someone explain that idol worshippers believed in little gods, sons of their gods, and since they knew they only threw in three men, and there were four, and they were walking around, the fourth man had to be the son (not Son) of God. They had done some kind of study on it and whatever....nothing I was personally interested in at the time, but I remember that being said.

Second a later verse reads
Dan 3:28 Then Nebuchadnezzar spoke, and said, Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, who hath sent his angel, and delivered his servants that trusted in him, and have changed the king's word, and yielded their bodies, that they might not serve nor worship any god, except their own God.

I find it odd that often times, an angel is mentioned when it was the Lord Himself. I have no idea why it was written that way, whether it was the translation that put it that way or the writers themselves. It's interesting though.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

Ok, I just got home and my son is in the shower, so I'll be here until he's done and I can take him back to camp.



And I still disagree with you. Being the busy person I am, I have tried to read every post you have made on this subject, and perhaps I missed the one where you posted scripture that states (not in exact words, but making a statement all the time) that angels are made or created in the image of God, but I haven't found one myself.

Not only did I post them but in the article several verses were posted to show that God, angels and man all have the same "image" or likeness. I've gone over it and over it. We share the same moral/emotional nature. God is Spirit. Angels are spirits. Man has spirit. God has morality. Angels have morality. Man has morality. God has will. Angels have will. Man has will. God has emotions. Angels have emotion. Man has emotion. I posted verses to that effect and that was where we got into a discussion on whether or not angels have will...remember? Then I asked you a question that I am not sure you answered...when God said man is become as one of us...who is the us?

That's not the point, but with God, all things are possible, and in this instance, I believe it's probable.

I've never denied that with God all things are possible, but when the bible says with God all things are possible that only means He has the power to do all things...that doesn't mean if I say "God could be a frog" the answer is "it's possible". Can God take the form of a frog? Sure He can do it, but is it possible that God is a frog? No. Is it possible that God CAN have made for Himself a body? Yes. Is it possible God has a body? I don't know. Is it probable? I don't know. Is it a possibility? Yes when we use the word that way just about anything can be said to be a possibility.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

I heard someone explain that idol worshippers believed in little gods, sons of their gods, and since they knew they only threw in three men, and there were four, and they were walking around, the fourth man had to be the son (not Son) of God. They had done some kind of study on it and whatever....nothing I was personally interested in at the time, but I remember that being said.

It's the KJV that adds "the" and not "a"

I find it odd that often times, an angel is mentioned when it was the Lord Himself. I have no idea why it was written that way, whether it was the translation that put it that way or the writers themselves. It's interesting though.

I don't, I think often it really is an angel but that perhaps God is inhabiting it or has taken it over or is speaking through it much like speaking through a prophet...only more personal. However in tihs case it does not say it was the Lord Himself.

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Not only did I post them but in the article several verses were posted to show that God, angels and man all have the same "image" or likeness. I've gone over it and over it. We share the same moral/emotional nature. God is Spirit. Angels are spirits. Man has spirit. God has morality. Angels have morality. Man has morality. God has will. Angels have will. Man has will. God has emotions. Angels have emotion. Man has emotion. I posted verses to that effect and that was where we got into a discussion on whether or not angels have will...remember? Then I asked you a question that I am not sure you answered...when God said man is become as one of us...who is the us?

The bigger question I have is....how did man "become" without being created that way, or is that what that verse is saying?

However, in that verse, God might be talking to the angels, and I think it's probable that He is.

I've never denied that with God all things are possible, but when the bible says with God all things are possible that only means He has the power to do all things...that doesn't mean if I say "God could be a frog" the answer is "it's possible". Can God take the form of a frog? Sure He can do it, but is it possible that God is a frog? No. Is it possible that God CAN have made for Himself a body? Yes. Is it possible God has a body? I don't know. Is it probable? I don't know. Is it a possibility? Yes when we use the word that way just about anything can be said to be a possibility.

God is a Spirit, and a spirit doesn't have hands or feet, so if God did something with hands, there had to be a form of some kind. That's what I'm talking about. God made Adam with His hands instead of his voice like He did with everything else.

So yes, when it was necessary, I believe God made Himself a bodily form.

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

It's the KJV that adds "the" and not "a"



I don't, I think often it really is an angel but that perhaps God is inhabiting it or has taken it over or is speaking through it much like speaking through a prophet...only more personal. However in tihs case it does not say it was the Lord Himself.

In some cases, it mentions an angel also being the Lord God. Just another one of many questions I plan on asking God when I see Him......why did He come so often as a man or angel in the OT but rarely since?

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

In some cases, it mentions an angel also being the Lord God. Just another one of many questions I plan on asking God when I see Him......why did He come so often as a man or angel in the OT but rarely since?

Please excuse me for this interruption. I have not read all of the things posted concerning this matter, however, upon reading these statements I feel compelled to state the following.

I cannot speak for others, and this because I believe that God deals with everyone on an individual basis, however, in every instance that the Lord God has manifested Himself to me during the past 20+ years of my life, He has ALWAYS done so as a visible "angel of the Lord."

In making this statement, I am also remined of the Lord's visible appearance to the Gentile named Cornelius. Are we not told in Acts 10:3 that he saw "an angel of the Lord coming in to him"? We do know that this was an apparition of God, for Cornelius was not rebuked when calling Him Lord (vs. 4).

Did not the apostle Paul also state that the "angel of God" appeared to him as well (see Acts 27:23).

Without taking the time to look them up at the present moment, I'm sure there can be found numerous other recorded incidents throughout the writings of the NT, where God has visually manifested Himself to others as an "angel." I simply mention these two incidents which immediately come to mind, as an example to refute your assertion that God has "rarely" manifested Himself as an "angel" since OT times.

With all due respect, I seriously doubt that anyone (including you and I) will be granted the privilege of making inquiries concerning the reason why God has done anything. Indeed, quite the contrary. It will be He who tenders the questions concerning our actions, and we who must provide the answers to Him.

I respectfully submit these things in the hope that they will give you cause to pause and reconsider your stated position on this matter.

Regards,
PaPaDon

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

The bigger question I have is....how did man "become" without being created that way, or is that what that verse is saying?

He became that way by eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

However, in that verse, God might be talking to the angels, and I think it's probable that He is.

Does this not show then that angels are like God somehow then?

God is a Spirit, and a spirit doesn't have hands or feet, so if God did something with hands, there had to be a form of some kind. That's what I'm talking about. God made Adam with His hands instead of his voice like He did with everything else.

Who said God did something with hands? Do you know what an anthropomorphism is?