How about the gift of love -- learning to love in a way that I couldn't do on my own?
If you're talking about spiritual gifts, I believe I've been used in the past, at random times in the gift of prophecy --- not in a gathering of others to put on a show or performance, but over coffee with fellow believers. I also speak in tongues often. Does that pass your litmus test?
The comb your hair, hairspray argument is always the automatic comeback to this but at least MissBratfield was sharp enough to stay away from that one. You cannot compare the basic prinicples of personal hygiene to the decorating of oneself in order to look more attractive and noticeable. I will say this, if you comb your hair in such a way as to attract attention to yourself, you're headed down the wrong path.
Maybe it is an :"automatic" comeback, that does not mean it's not a valid comeback.
You don't need to bathe every day or wash your hair everyday. That is mostly for your benefit and those around you that don't want to smell your stink. Your's because you would be a social misfit if you stunk. Theirs for having to deal with an unwashed person's odor. Same goes for deodorant.
People do those things because they take "pride" in their appearance same with covering a zit.
Covering a zit is not "decorating" anymore than hiding your natural body odor.
I thank God for being delivered from the spirit that looks down their noses at everyone else for every little thing they do to condemn them to hell rather than pointing them to Jesus
Jesus never judged anyone for dressing nice or combing their hair in a certain way nor did His Apostles.
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
I've expressed some dismay at the heavy criticism here when all I've done is promote the basic Acts2:38 New Birth message. It's basics of belief in repentance, baptism in water in Jesus' name, and the infilling of the Holy Ghost evidenced by speaking with other tongues.
So could I get an idea of what's here at AFF and just see what people believe by asking these questions?
1: Do you believe that water baptism must be done in the name of Jesus and that any other baptism is not a valid baptism?
2: Do you believe that the infilling of the Holy Ghost is evidenced only by speaking with other tongues?
3: Do you believe these things are absolutely necessary in order to be saved and ready for heaven?
4: Do you hold as a core value the basics of traditional pentecostal holiness which is: Men: full length pants, shirts with sleeves, short hair, Women: uncut hair, no makeup, no pants, shirts with sleeves?
5: Do you believe a trinitarian will go to heaven?
Yes
Yes
Yes
not necessarily. some i agree with others not so much. I do not think men and women should cross dress. using a 1950's understanding of what is and is not womens clothing makes no sense in the current era.
I believe tha any trinitarin that is baptized in Jesus name and is full of the Holy Ghost (as you and I understand that to mean)...and has a revalation of the mighty God in Christ will absolutly make heaven his (or her) home.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
How about the gift of love -- learning to love in a way that I couldn't do on my own?
If you're talking about spiritual gifts, I believe I've been used in the past, at random times in the gift of prophecy --- not in a gathering of others to put on a show or performance, but over coffee with fellow believers. I also speak in tongues often. Does that pass your litmus test?
I am speaking of spiritual gifts and was simply ascertaining whether or not you were trying to talk about something that you are not involved in.
The gifts are never for show. They are a help to the body and should be viewed as such. I've been in services where they have been misused. That doesn't turn me off to being used in them and saying something like - "not in a gathering of others to put on a show or performance,"
The verse (Acts 19:6) says that they spake in tongues and prophesied. That means that they received, IMO, the Holy Ghost and began to, immediately, operate in the Spirit.
With all due respect PO,
I don't read about any of the Apostles teaching us that "speaking in tongues" is the "initial evidence" of receiving God's Spirit.
For me, the doctrine of "Initial Evidence" cannot be firmly established in the Scriptures with proper substantiation and support, especially in light of what it requires one to believe. Which is why many serious scholars and theologians of the Bible, as a rule, refrain from formulating and canonizing doctrines from the book of Acts. Acts is a narrative written after the Pauline Epistles, a point made by someone on here earlier. It is significant because narratives are understood as existing on structures already established. If we are to establish doctrines critical to point of excluding or including legions of the faithful, it is proper and right to start from the basic didactic portions of the Word before developing out more complex formulations about the narratives.
I guess that gives me away on at least one question on the survey.
Last edited by noeticknight; 02-17-2011 at 03:44 PM.
Yes
Yes
Yes
not necessarily. some i agree with others not so much. I do not think men and women should cross dress. using a 1950's understanding of what is and is not womens clothing makes no sense in the current era.
I believe tha any trinitarin that is baptized in Jesus name and is full of the Holy Ghost (as you and I understand that to mean)...and has a revalation of the mighty God in Christ will absolutly make heaven his (or her) home.
Can I ask you something, Ferd? Before you got involved in internet forums, would you have answered the same way on numbers 4 and 5?
I am speaking of spiritual gifts and was simply ascertaining whether or not you were trying to talk about something that you are not involved in.
The gifts are never for show. They are a help to the body and should be viewed as such. I've been in services where they have been misused. That doesn't turn me off to being used in them and saying something like - "not in a gathering of others to put on a show or performance,"
I figured that's what it was. God forbid someone not have a voice on the subject, because they've never experienced it. Nice quick, tidy shutdown.
I've heard prophesy at a time of gathering as well. Mostly, and lately, these gifts have been used (or given to us) at other times of getting together that have been less formal.
I know plenty of preachers that make a show out of a "gift." You do too. The best one is when they have a Word from God for someone, then proceed to preach it to everyone -- instead of going to that person. And why preach it with text and everything? Just say what God said... if He really said anything!
People have made a living out of being "used in gift." It's on their business cards and personal websites. Sounds foreign to the 1 Cor 14 experience to me.
But we digress. You still believe that when people prophesied in Acts, it's not evidence of the Holy Spirit, and I still find that position indefensible.
My views on "standards" began before there was an internet.
That someone changed their views while being a denizen of the Internet does not mean the Internet had anything to do with it. It may have happened anyway
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
With all due respect PO,
I don't read about any of the Apostles teaching us that "speaking in tongues" is the "initial evidence" of the receiving God's Spirit.
For me, the doctrine of "Initial Evidence" cannot be firmly established in the Scriptures with proper substantiation and support, especially in light of what it requires one to believe. Which is why many serious scholars and theologians of the Bible, as a rule, refrain from formulating and canonizing doctrines from the book of Acts. Acts is a narrative written after the Pauline Epistles, a point made by someone on here earlier. It is significant because narratives are understood as existing on structures already established. If we are to establish doctrines critical to point of excluding or including legions of the faithful, it is proper and right to start from the basic didactic portions of the Word before developing out more complex formulations about the narratives.
I am taking the Word before me and I can't see it any other way. As I said, God would have to show that to me in order to believe anything else. He is very precise in everything that He does. There is more evidence, during the beginning of the NT church age, to identify it than there is against it. No theologian will dispute that Acts was the beginning of the NT church.
Acts 2:4 "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."
Acts 10:45 "And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. (46) For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,"
Acts 19:6 "And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied."
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