Checking In

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by Newman

Well then, I certainly wouldn't send them to Bible School.... However, that being said; I do think there is a time between a child's independence from mom and dad and finding a spouse that will be pivotal for them.

It is preferable I would think to having some special consideration as to God's design on their life; and ideally an ENVIRONMENT that would support their spiritual growth.

We heard that Great Lakes University (Steve Warman) was almost accredited and offered Teacher Certification. We would have sent our daughter there, but alas they do not offer it.

I thought we believed in abstinence, not BC?

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Just a Shepherd

I would encourage young people to seek God's will for their lives first. Then take whatever route necessary to get the type of education they need to fulfill God's will, Whether it be studying at college, learning a trade, performing an apprenticeship or starting a business.

The idea that everyone "has to go to college" is nonsense. The average pay for an architect in the US is $56,637 yr. The average pay for a level III welder is $52,820. There are plenty of ways to make a good living without spending $35,000 to get a degree.

Amen! Good post! Entrepreneurship - They need to teach that in the schools, but they don't. My daughter started her own business after being homeschooled and was interviewed in the paper, twice. The Small Business Administration said they never teach the kids in school that you don't have to work for someone else.

She is going to college now to get a business degree, but she didn't start out that way.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by CC1

Perhaps Gordon Poe?

You know what he said the other day? Job lost everything except for his nagging wife!

[Newman]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

Aren't you sweet.

I'm sorry I get so worked up over this stuff. I just want my kids to do better than me. The last thing they need is someone laying a guilt trip on them about BC.

My pastor was visionary. About the time I was graduating from high school he began to say it was time for the church youth to go on to college and get degrees. That we needed Apostolic doctors and lawyers, etc.

And it was a good thing he did given the way the economy changed since (in my area)....

Young men who had previously been able to get good jobs right out of high school that could have supported families; no longer can do that today. My pastor was ahead of his time but right on time.

[MissBrattified]

Here are my [rather random] thoughts:

Bible School is often a positive experience, at least from what I've heard. Some of my best friends and most influential leaders (including my pastor) are Bible School graduates. I intend to encourage our children to attend, even if only for a year or two, in an effort to seek God's will for their lives before they pursue any other type of education. Unpopular view perhaps, but its the one we espouse in our house.

I strongly support higher education, whether secular or religious.

I do not believe college is for everyone, although I think in today's workplace, it will benefit most, especially those, as Newman pointed out, who intend to support their own families. Of course, when I say "college", I mean any training above and beyond a high school education, to obtain a skill or degree.

In many cases, potential employers DO look only for a degree, and really couldn't care less about skill, unless they have ascertained the existence of a degree FIRST.

I think it is inappropriate for an evangelist to get up and instruct a group of young people in a matter that ought to be guided by their parents and spiritual leaders, since it is very personal, and must be unique to the child in question, and his or her abilities.

Those who think that Bible School was a "waste" probably should never have attended there in the first place. It certainly isn't a waste for everyone, and it certainly can't be accurately disparaged as simply a "dating service" and a place to make "connections." PP, I think you ought to show a little more insight.

In my opinion (Newman, don't hit me ) women don't necessarily need to pursue as much secular education as a man, unless they want to, if they intend to fulfill traditional roles, although certainly education will probably add to their abilities, even for the roles of wife, mother and homemaker. To clarify, a Christian man's first responsibility will potentially be as the provider for his family, so it will be a concern for him to acquire a job which can allow him to do so to the best of his ability, and education will most likely enhance that ability.

I in no way believe that folks who don't get a college education are stupid or ignorant or anything of the sort. I don't have a college degree (yet...working on that ), nor does my husband. My husband attended a technical school, and also has an A & P license, and he worked as an engineering assistant, and now works as a Sr. Industrial Engineer with a salary to match, alongside men who have master's degrees in that field. So obviously I understand that it CAN be done without a degree. However, many companies won't give you the time of day without that piece of paper, no matter how many skills you have.

Bible school is not the magic answer, but neither is a secular education. There are plenty of "losers" with college educations, and even more "losers" without any degree at all, including high school who lean on the government to put food on their tables, and there are losers with Bible School degrees who were there to meet a spouse and not much else, and didn't take the time, as they should have, to seek God and find out His direction for their life. (Which should be the whole purpose of such an endeavor.)

Finally, college is NOT for everyone. Some people are booksmart (as my Grandma would say)...others are good with handcrafting and machinery, and still others are good with nature and animals, and some are arty and creative.

What I object to concerning the minister in question is this: When you are speaking to children and teenagers, it should be foremost in one's mind that their parents are already guiding them in these decisions, and to insert one's nose where it does not belong is bound to make a few folks angry, unless you can do it with wisdom and discretion, and it sounds as if this man may not have utilized the better part of valor.

[Just a Shepherd]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

I have friends who are both, that's how I can verify it. I'm a Project Manager for one of the largest engineering and construction companies in the world, with over 50,000 employees, ranging from architects to engineers to managers. I know what I make, and I know how much I pay the union welders that I employ on my job sites. Good enough?

And, I'm not sure where you live, but in my experience, employers are more concerned about a degree than a skill level when viewing resumes. I'll agree that if you can get your foot in the door somewhere and prove yourself, your experience and skill is more valuable, but trust me on this one, many people without a degree will NEVER have the opportuity to even get in the door to prove themselves.

I agree that each person's situation is different. For some jobs a degree is a must because it is required to perform the work competently. But I would rather have a ex-Vietnam chopper pilot landing the 747 that I am riding in than a 26 yr old with a masters in aviation science. Everything else being equal

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Here are my [rather random] thoughts:

Bible School is often a positive experience, at least from what I've heard. Some of my best friends and most influential leaders (including my pastor) are Bible School graduates. I intend to encourage our children to attend, even if only for a year or two, in an effort to seek God's will for their lives before they pursue any other type of education. Unpopular view perhaps, but its the one we espouse in our house.

I strongly support higher education, whether secular or religious.

I do not believe college is for everyone, although I think in today's workplace, it will benefit most, especially those, as Newman pointed out, who intend to support their own families. Of course, when I say "college", I mean any training above and beyond a high school education, to obtain a skill or degree.

In many cases, potential employers DO look only for a degree, and really couldn't care less about skill, unless they have ascertained the existence of a degree FIRST.

I think it is inappropriate for an evangelist to get up and instruct a group of young people in a matter that ought to be guided by their parents and spiritual leaders, since it is very personal, and must be unique to the child in question, and his or her abilities.

Those who think that Bible School was a "waste" probably should never have attended there in the first place. It certainly isn't a waste for everyone, and it certainly can't be accurately disparaged as simply a "dating service" and a place to make "connections." PP, I think you ought to show a little more insight.

In my opinion (Newman, don't hit me ) women don't necessarily need to pursue as much secular education as a man, unless they want to, if they intend to fulfill traditional roles, although certainly education will probably add to their abilities, even for the roles of wife, mother and homemaker. To clarify, a Christian man's first responsibility will potentially be as the provider for his family, so it will be a concern for him to acquire a job which can allow him to do so to the best of his ability, and education will most likely enhance that ability.

I in no way believe that folks who don't get a college education are stupid or ignorant or anything of the sort. I don't have a college degree (yet...working on that ), nor does my husband. My husband attended a technical school, and also has an A & P license, and he worked as an engineering assistant, and now works as a Sr. Industrial Engineer with a salary to match, alongside men who have master's degrees in that field. So obviously I understand that it CAN be done without a degree. However, many companies won't give you the time of day without that piece of paper, no matter how many skills you have.

Bible school is not the magic answer, but neither is a secular education. There are plenty of "losers" with college educations, and even more "losers" without any degree at all, including high school who lean on the government to put food on their tables, and there are losers with Bible School degrees who were there to meet a spouse and not much else, and didn't take the time, as they should have, to seek God and find out His direction for their life. (Which should be the whole purpose of such an endeavor.)

Finally, college is NOT for everyone. Some people are booksmart...others are good with handcrafting and machinery, and still others are good with nature and animals, and some are arty and creative.

What I object to concerning the minister in question is this: When you are speaking to children and teenagers, it should be foremost in one's mind that their parents are already guiding them in these decisions, and to insert one's nose where it does not belong is bound to make a few folks angry, unless you can do it with wisdom and discretion, and it sounds as if this man may not have utilized the better part of valor.

Miss B,

At BC, I was student body secretary, vice president of the ministerial alliance, lead male vocalist, chorale, school trio and all that junk. I was a paid youth pastor for one of the largest churches in the area.

But a secular degree would have helped me more.

[Newman]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Here are my [rather random] thoughts:

Bible School is often a positive experience, at least from what I've heard. Some of my best friends and most influential leaders (including my pastor) are Bible School graduates. I intend to encourage our children to attend, even if only for a year or two, in an effort to seek God's will for their lives before they pursue any other type of education. Unpopular view perhaps, but its the one we espouse in our house.

I strongly support higher education, whether secular or religious.

I do not believe college is for everyone, although I think in today's workplace, it will benefit most, especially those, as Newman pointed out, who intend to support their own families. Of course, when I say "college", I mean any training above and beyond a high school education, to obtain a skill or degree.

In many cases, potential employers DO look only for a degree, and really couldn't care less about skill, unless they have ascertained the existence of a degree FIRST.

I think it is inappropriate for an evangelist to get up and instruct a group of young people in a matter that ought to be guided by their parents and spiritual leaders, since it is very personal, and must be unique to the child in question, and his or her abilities.

Those who think that Bible School was a "waste" probably should never have attended there in the first place. It certainly isn't a waste for everyone, and it certainly can't be accurately disparaged as simply a "dating service" and a place to make "connections." PP, I think you ought to show a little more insight.

In my opinion (Newman, don't hit me ) women don't necessarily need to pursue as much secular education as a man, unless they want to, if they intend to fulfill traditional roles, although certainly education will probably add to their abilities, even for the roles of wife, mother and homemaker. To clarify, a Christian man's first responsibility will potentially be as the provider for his family, so it will be a concern for him to acquire a job which can allow him to do so to the best of his ability, and education will most likely enhance that ability.

I in no way believe that folks who don't get a college education are stupid or ignorant or anything of the sort. I don't have a college degree (yet...working on that ), nor does my husband. My husband attended a technical school, and also has an A & P license, and he worked as an engineering assistant, and now works as a Sr. Industrial Engineer with a salary to match, alongside men who have master's degrees in that field. So obviously I understand that it CAN be done without a degree. However, many companies won't give you the time of day without that piece of paper, no matter how many skills you have.

Bible school is not the magic answer, but neither is a secular education. There are plenty of "losers" with college educations, and even more "losers" without any degree at all, including high school who lean on the government to put food on their tables, and there are losers with Bible School degrees who were there to meet a spouse and not much else, and didn't take the time, as they should have, to seek God and find out His direction for their life. (Which should be the whole purpose of such an endeavor.)

Finally, college is NOT for everyone. Some people are booksmart...others are good with handcrafting and machinery, and still others are good with nature and animals, and some are arty and creative.

Hehehehe! I was agreeing with most everything you said. However, I think that college-educatated men generally want college-educated wives. It keeps things more even keel.

[Just a Shepherd]

Originally Posted by Sheltiedad

If someone could just convince the old-timers that 10 percent of a white-collar salary is usually more than 10 percent of a blue-collar salary then this wouldn't be a problem... I think the fear is that the more education one gets, the more likely it is that they will eventually leave the church... before the benefits of the white-collar salary start to show... so maybe the old-timers are right!

Oops, did I say that out loud?

That's just plain dumb.