Ferd and I both know people that left the UPC years ago. their churches nor their families have absolutley NO semblence of Pentecost left and I'm not talking about buns a skirts.I have NEVER cut anyone off who left UPC or standards.I have people/friends who can vouch for that, but I know those who left that have told me that they did have some regrets in that their children had no roots and no connections to the Pentecostal experience. In fact, they had little or no desire for it either.
most churches that leave Pentecost end up being equal to a glorified baptist church given time.
All of these should be a concern call it a slippery slop if you want
Before I received the Holy Ghost, I was baptized according to Matt 28. I was rebaptized according to Acts 2. Thus, I have practiced baptism and I command new converts to be baptized. Of course we must be baptized because the Lord commanded it.
The point I was bringing out is when regenration takes places.
When regeneration takes place?... Tough to say. I mean, everything in Acts 2:38 has to be completed to be saved, but I was awakened to my spiritual need in May of 2001 when I gave my life to the LORD, after a year or so I recieved the HG, I went to a trinity Pentecostal church and wandered there and with the charismatics for the next two years until I was baptized in JESUS' name in 2004. I know I was fully regenerated on Sept 5, 2004, but if I had been baptized and recieved the HG some time later, I guess the definitiveness would be a bit blurry. I'd have the feeling that, "Well, I've been baptized and obeyed the Gospel but I don't have the HG yet..." I still very much believe all must be completed and we must continue to walk with the LORD. I'm not saved until my feet touch the streets of gold.
But I absolutely could not have fellowship with someone who believed someone could be saved without baptism, I look at baptism like I do with the brass laver in the Tabernacle, if you don't wash- you'll die!
I believe the new birth is the baptisms found in Acts 2:38, but for sake of argument, if someone is born again at faith and repentance then what is the purpose of receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit?
How is the baptism of the Holy Spirit different from receiving the Spirit of Christ at faith?
And how do you explain Acts 8 when it says the Holy Spirit had not been given (fallen upon) yet the Samaritans were believers? or Paul having to receive the Spirit from Ananias instead of on the Damascus road? or the disciples in Ephesus who were asked if they had received the Spirit since they believed and then once they believed in Christ as evidenced by their obedience to water baptism, they still had to have Paul pray for them to receive the Spirit?
Do you believe in two separate baptisms of the Spirit?
__________________
His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
I believe the new birth is the baptisms found in Acts 2:38, but for sake of argument, if someone is born again at faith and repentance then what is the purpose of receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit?
How is the baptism of the Holy Spirit different from receiving the Spirit of Christ at faith?
And how do you explain Acts 8 when it says the Holy Spirit had not been given (fallen upon) yet the Samaritans were believers? or Paul having to receive the Spirit from Ananias instead of on the Damascus road? or the disciples in Ephesus who were asked if they had received the Spirit since they believed and then once they believed in Christ as evidenced by their obedience to water baptism, they still had to have Paul pray for them to receive the Spirit?
Do you believe in two separate baptisms of the Spirit?
I don't want you to feel like I am blowing off your question but I have some things I need to finish up here today and I am getting out early tomorrow. I might have time tomorrow remind me.
I don't want you to feel like I am blowing off your question but I have some things I need to finish up here today and I am getting out early tomorrow. I might have time tomorrow remind me.
Take your time, I haven't had a good answer to these questions ever! Another day isn't going to make much of a difference.
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His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
I had a preacher who was once my pastor and most here would know his name if I called it, tell me in front of my family that my wife and I are doing just right and that we shouldnt change a thing.
He said it with tears in his eyes and a sense of regret. that man pastors a large non-denominational church that does baptize in Jesus Name but holds very little of the doctrines they once did.
It broke my heart.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
I had a preacher who was once my pastor and most here would know his name if I called it, tell me in front of my family that my wife and I are doing just right and that we shouldnt change a thing.
He said it with tears in his eyes and a since of regret. that man pastors a large non-denominational church that does baptize in Jesus Name but holds very little of the doctrines they once did.
Preconceived ideas, past experience = extra baggage.
That's absurd though. I came with no preconceived ideas. I was not raised a Christian. If it was preconceived ideas why aren't most of us what we used to be? Roman Catholic? Baptist? Trinitarian?
Most people that come INTO Oneness were not Catholic or COC theologians
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
I believe the new birth is the baptisms found in Acts 2:38, but for sake of argument, if someone is born again at faith and repentance then what is the purpose of receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit?
How is the baptism of the Holy Spirit different from receiving the Spirit of Christ at faith?
And how do you explain Acts 8 when it says the Holy Spirit had not been given (fallen upon) yet the Samaritans were believers? or Paul having to receive the Spirit from Ananias instead of on the Damascus road? or the disciples in Ephesus who were asked if they had received the Spirit since they believed and then once they believed in Christ as evidenced by their obedience to water baptism, they still had to have Paul pray for them to receive the Spirit?
Do you believe in two separate baptisms of the Spirit?
Mizpeh, I have been studying the infilling of the HG the last few days, and I have some questions too. So far, I have only really taken a look at what happened on the day of Pentecost, but I already am wondering why the apostles needed to receive the HG again if they had already received it as disciples. I am no where near completing my study, but I am certain this study will lead me to some of the same instances and questions you've posed.
My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. 
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