Timmy Talk

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

I see the root of bitterness is producing leafs.
obviously you have been watering and fertilizing it, keep on going it will produce nice fruit eventually.
enjoy eating the fruit of bitterness.

hmm, or, see that we are all lied to, if there is any other person involved; and find your own way to Love Your Neighbor. Peace to you.

[MarcBee]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

I see the root of bitterness is producing leafs.
obviously you have been watering and fertilizing it, keep on going it will produce nice fruit eventually.
enjoy eating the fruit of bitterness.

Ah, playing the "bitter card" once again, I see. Ad hominem is what people often resort to when their arguments
are too weak. (Again) please try to accept the big difference between bitterness and criticism. When people in Fellowship
Hall criticize Obama, are they called bitter? Or maybe when Jesus lambasted the Pharisees, they tried to dismiss his argument
similarly, "Oh, that Jesus is just bitter." So instead of trying to belittle my mind, why not try to address the specific arguments, and defend your god instead? There exists a prosperous industry to help you do so! (AKA apologetics--they have "answers" for everything, only requiring faith! But why would an omnipotent and omniscient god need an industry to explain things for him? His word is supposed to be so perfect.)

Back to the issue--your desert god Yahweh demonstrates immoral behavior and likewise directed his people toward similar behavior whenever
the situation suited him (AKA situational ethics.) Therefore, since god is never wrong, each instance of badness becomes redefined as GOODNESS
to true believers. And through to today, FAITH forces and reinforces people into justifying such absurdity. (You need to resort to faith when
reason is obviously inadequate.) For brevity, among dozens of similar examples, the desert god Yahwah had no problem with being, when it suited him (or his obedient servants)
-a murderer (I Sam 15:3)
-a vandal (Gen 7:21)
-a thief (Job 1:21)
-a liar (Ezek 14:9)

So , how do we square the Good God we think we know in Jesus (Love Thy neighbor) with the badly behaving desert god Yahweh, yet who are One
in essence? Like this: people create the kind of gods that make sense to them in the time and place they lived. The bible is an anthology,
as it turns out, an anthology of (some proportion of) human fiction, rhetorically honed to perfection by clever religious editors and professional apologists.
Are we bitter yet?

[shazeep]

at the end of the day, for Christian or atheist alike, criticism comes from bitterness. God has no interest in ones label for themselves. Call yourself whatever you like; it does not matter.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by MarcBee

Ah, playing the "bitter card" once again, I see. Ad hominem is what people often resort to when their arguments
are too weak. (Again) please try to accept the big difference between bitterness and criticism. When people in Fellowship
Hall criticize Obama, are they called bitter? Or maybe when Jesus lambasted the Pharisees, they tried to dismiss his argument
similarly, "Oh, that Jesus is just bitter." So instead of trying to belittle my mind, why not try to address the specific arguments, and defend your god instead? There exists a prosperous industry to help you do so! (AKA apologetics--they have "answers" for everything, only requiring faith! But why would an omnipotent and omniscient god need an industry to explain things for him? His word is supposed to be so perfect.)

wadr, if you immerse yourself in the word, you will see that you are mostly agreeing with it here. These are all prophesied against.

Originally Posted by MarcBee

Back to the issue--your desert god Yahweh demonstrates immoral behavior and likewise directed his people toward similar behavior whenever
the situation suited him (AKA situational ethics.) Therefore, since god is never wrong, each instance of badness becomes redefined as GOODNESS
to true believers. And through to today, FAITH forces and reinforces people into justifying such absurdity. (You need to resort to faith when
reason is obviously inadequate.) For brevity, among dozens of similar examples, the desert god Yahwah had no problem with being, when it suited him (or his obedient servants)
-a murderer (I Sam 15:3)
-a vandal (Gen 7:21)
-a thief (Job 1:21)
-a liar (Ezek 14:9)

So , how do we square the Good God we think we know in Jesus (Love Thy neighbor) with the badly behaving desert god Yahweh, yet who are One
in essence? Like this: people create the kind of gods that make sense to them in the time and place they lived. The bible is an anthology,
as it turns out, an anthology of human fiction, rhetorically honed to perfection by clever religious editors and professional apologists.
Are you bitter yet?

your missive here ignores an important point, i think, in that the Law was given with full knowledge that we could not keep it. The OT is the dispensation of Law, pre-Grace, such that we needed "an eye for an eye" not because it was a good Law, but because otherwise one would be killing the one who took his eye. God is not created; you even you, were born from Him, and i could put you in mind of early childhood memories that would demonstrate this irrevocably. Toss that corrupted church model, by all means; but there is a Baby in that bathwater, k?

[shazeep]

what i mean by that, since it may not be evident at first, is that all those situational ethics were not ethical, from God's pov, but necessary to teach a lesson to the people of that era. while all that righteous slaughtering may seem heinous to us, to God, who created those that were killed, the physical deaths were irrelevant; our false conceptions of where they may have gone after dead irrelevant. They went back to God.

It is equally irrelevant to put our morality on God. I don't kill indiscriminately, because i cannot create; a restriction that One Who can create may ignore.

[shazeep]

"as it turns out, an anthology of human fiction..."
ok, just explain Daniel then. No one else can. The Dead Sea scrolls blew all that "Daniel was actually written much later" yack out of the water.

[MarcBee]

Originally Posted by shazeep

at the end of the day, for Christian or atheist alike, criticism comes from bitterness.

In that case, if there's no difference, then I'm in good company with Jesus, who also criticized what he didn't like.

Originally Posted by shazeep

God has no interest in ones label for themselves..

You speaking for God ? I think Jesus would disagree with that point according to Rev. 2:2.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by MarcBee

In that case, I'm in good company with Jesus, who also criticized what he didn't like.

my answer to that is that you have not lived a perfect life, or gotten the calendar changed in your honor, etc. I might argue that those were direct responses to inquiries, and not unsolicited...but we are on a forum, a good place to bring criticism, imo. A time and a place for everything.

Originally Posted by MarcBee

Speaking for God again? I think Jesus would disagree with that point according to Rev. 2:2.

...hmm, that is a Scripture which i feel helps to make my point; so i guess it depends upon your pov there. Call yourself an Apostle if you like--you might still be off the rails, iow.

[MarcBee]

Originally Posted by shazeep

what i mean by that, since it may not be evident at first, is that all those situational ethics were not ethical, from God's pov, but necessary to teach a lesson to the people of that era.

That point doesn't work right here, because god had no problems "educating" the desert folk with other silliness when it suited him, such as the prohibition to mix wool threads with polyester (joke) or, the actual 10th commandment, "Thou shalt not boil a kid goat in its mother's milk." (musta been a huge problem of the day.)

Originally Posted by shazeep

while all that righteous slaughtering may seem heinous to us, to God, who created those that were killed, the physical deaths were irrelevant;

Good example of how bad behavior becomes eventually redefined as "GOOD" in the minds of true believers. That's what faith does to ya...

Originally Posted by shazeep

They went back to God.

Oh, they were "evil" enough to warrant slaughtering, but still saveable enough to enjoy the True God For The Rest Of Eternity! Nice touch. That's what faith can do, every time.

[MarcBee]

Originally Posted by shazeep

...hmm, that is a Scripture which i feel helps to make my point; so i guess it depends upon your pov there. Call yourself an Apostle if you like--you might still be off the rails, iow.

No, you were arguing that labels ("what we call ourselves") don't matter, even in the sight of your god. The only point I'm claiming is that labels do matter, and your own scripture backs that up.