Daniel's 70th week - Page 12

Evang.Benincasa · #**111** 03-22-2019, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I think so.

Why would you think so?

Michael The Disciple · #**112** 03-22-2019, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Why would you think so?

Because this has not happened.

Daniel 12:1-3

1And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

After the tribulation of those days will come the resurrection and judgement.

Esaias · #**113** 03-23-2019, 04:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Because this has not happened.

Daniel 12:1-3

1And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

After the tribulation of those days will come the resurrection and judgement.

Upon what basis are we to believe that verse 2 is to be fulfilled IMMEDIATELY upon the fulfillment of verse 1? Did Joel 2:30 get fulfilled immediately when Joel 2:29 got fulfilled? Or do you not acknowledge that just because a verse follows immediately after another verse the fulfillments may not follow immediately after one another?

Also, the resurrection Daniel writes of includes the good and the bad. So do you believe that immediately after the Tribulation, Jesus returns and there is the general resurrection and Judgment Day? Or are you premillennial, and thus recognize there is a delay between the resurrection events which are both in the same verse, in verse 2?

Evang.Benincasa · #**114** 03-23-2019, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Because this has not happened.

Daniel 12:1-3

1And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

After the tribulation of those days will come the resurrection and judgement.

Mike, so tell me, since you are so clear on the above. Please explain what exactly is happening in verse seven? Because verses one to three don't look like they proceed what is happening in verse seven. Since verses seven to eight specifically call for the total end. It looks like verse seven is the prime indicator prior to the events in verses one to three. So, please explain what is happening in verse seven which is the indicator for the events in verses one to three.

Michael The Disciple · #**115** 03-23-2019, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Upon what basis are we to believe that verse 2 is to be fulfilled IMMEDIATELY upon the fulfillment of verse 1? Did Joel 2:30 get fulfilled immediately when Joel 2:29 got fulfilled? Or do you not acknowledge that just because a verse follows immediately after another verse the fulfillments may not follow immediately after one another?

It seems to me Daniel 12:1-2

1And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Is the reference point of Jesus statement in Matt 24:15-21

15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

And of that time Christ says a few verses later:

Matt 24:29-31

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

So the IMMEDIATELY seems to stick out here.

Generally speaking I assume what follows will come quickly. Can there be "gaps"? There seems to be some in scripture.

Michael The Disciple · #**116** 03-23-2019, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Also, the resurrection Daniel writes of includes the good and the bad. So do you believe that immediately after the Tribulation, Jesus returns and there is the general resurrection and Judgment Day? Or are you premillennial, and thus recognize there is a delay between the resurrection events which are both in the same verse, in verse 2?

Well I am pre mill but understand there SEEMS to be a heavy weight of scripture teaching the judgement of the wicked at the resurrection. I dont have perfect understanding as to how that fits with Rev. 20:5.

5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Evang.Benincasa · #**117** 03-23-2019, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Mike, so tell me, since you are so clear on the above. Please explain what exactly is happening in verse seven? Because verses one to three don't look like they proceed what is happening in verse seven. Since verses seven to eight specifically call for the total end. It looks like verse seven is the prime indicator prior to the events in verses one to three. So, please explain what is happening in verse seven which is the indicator for the events in verses one to three.

Mike?

Michael The Disciple · #**118** 03-24-2019, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
Mike, so tell me, since you are so clear on the above. Please explain what exactly is happening in verse seven? Because verses one to three don't look like they proceed what is happening in verse seven. Since verses seven to eight specifically call for the total end. It looks like verse seven is the prime indicator prior to the events in verses one to three. So, please explain what is happening in verse seven which is the indicator for the events in verses one to three.

The time frame is mentioned by the angel to add more information to what has been shown in Dan 12:1-3. First the abomination of desolation is set up. Then 2 more specific time frames.

When referenced to other scriptures in Matthew, 2 Thess, and Revelation its all pointing to the coming of Jesus.

Evang.Benincasa · #**119** 03-24-2019, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

The time frame is mentioned by the angel to add more information to what has been shown in Dan 12:1-3. First the abomination of desolation is set up. Then 2 more specific time frames.

When referenced to other scriptures in Matthew, 2 Thess, and Revelation its all pointing to the coming of Jesus.

Explain those time frames, show the sequence. Please.

mfblume · #**120** 03-24-2019, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

Those words were in Matthew 26, which comes after 24. So aren't relevant to the issue of "all comings mentioned prior to ch 24." I did, however, include ch 16, which DOES indeed come before 24, and which is not about AD 70. Especially visible when it is then afterwards compared to ch 26 and taking notice of the temporal reference "from now on", which again is not AD 70. Also, Dan 7 is about Christ coming into His Kingdom, not AD 70. And finally, Matt 26 is no more about judgment in AD 70 than the fact Jesus came into this world "for judgment" has to do with AD 70.

The error here is like when a person sees that Jesus died on "a tree", then finds some reference to trees and assumes they speak of the same event.

Matthew 16 is a direct reference of Jesus to Daniel chapter 7, which was all about judgment. Caiaphas recognized Jesus was referring to himself as the one coming in clouds from Daniel 7.